WIP Sword, feedback and Critique please
I've been working on this for a bit now:
And i'm somewhat stuck on the process, i'm not happy with the textures, but i cant seem to see where it could be better.
The model is based on Davens concept over in the 2D forums:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2045681&postcount=2
I took some liberties with the color of the glow as that green is so damn sexy next to the golden/orange of the handle.
And i'm somewhat stuck on the process, i'm not happy with the textures, but i cant seem to see where it could be better.
The model is based on Davens concept over in the 2D forums:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2045681&postcount=2
I took some liberties with the color of the glow as that green is so damn sexy next to the golden/orange of the handle.
Replies
here's two more angles:
http://i.imgur.com/q7Lds2R.png
http://i.imgur.com/swbfag7.png
Spec:
http://i.imgur.com/GnItMWF.png
Normal:
http://i.imgur.com/8b07m3A.png
Diffuse:
http://i.imgur.com/5xz9IWQ.png
Wireframe:
http://i.imgur.com/eJxTyFg.png
There's about 4500 tris
the glow's pretty sweet, i like it! how did you do that?
some comments:
- the sword looks plastic-ky due to the specular. For metal, spec colour is blue.
- you could add metal textures to the blade
It looks like the whole thing is made of painted metal or plastic. Really think about what materials you want on the model. What is the metal used for the blade? Is the handle copper or painted metal? The black areas do you want them to be cast iron or a painted metal?
The metals should be nearly black in the diffuse if not black entirely. You need to add more wear to the textures overall. Also is there any reason you aren't moving this to a PBR piece. It really helps sell model being able to use colored spec and gloss.
What are you using to render everything out? and What is your target in terms of is in next or current gen. Is it intended for a 1st or 3rd person setting etc.
Glow was done with an emissive map, i didnt post it because its just black with some colors on it
I agree, the blade looks plastic-y, i'll try to find a fix for it, the metal texture idea sounds good.
@Stevston89
I think i'll go with metal, that being copper or brass, and the blade itself being iron. Or a similar metal. the darker areas would probably be painted or cast metal, havnt decided on that yet. But deciding on a material and then persuing that in the texture is a really good idea which i didnt think of
I'm not using PBR because i dont have access to an engine that renders PBR, right now i'm rendering in toolbag one, but i'm kinda low on cash so i'm not going to buy toolbag2 just right away. So if i'm going with non-pbr texturing, then i dont need to make the metals completely black, right?, i havnt looked into PBR yet as i feel its way over what my current texturing and modelling skills would support, that and there's not great use for it on my portfolio. But learning PBR techniques is definitely on my list of things to learn soon
As i said, right now i'm using Toolbag, the target would be last-gen
Thanks for the great comments so far!
You still need to make you metal black in the diffuse this is partly why your metal looks plastic. Metal doesn't have diffuse. It only has specular ( for the most part). You also are really going to want to take advantage of the gloss controls in toolbag 1. I believe your gloss control will be in the alpha of your specular. Also use colored specular especially if you are going to have copper or brass in there.
EDIT: Just to convince you here is a little mock of your texture. ( it is in toolbag 2.0, but your results should still be similar).
Posting this up for ease of use
-Critique inbound-
Understand that the concept you are using was probably meant for a hand painted sword but still the colour scheme for the concept looks awesome however I do not seem to get the same reaction from yours in the image you can see the differences in the orange parts of your model compared to the concept.
1)Where have these shapes gone?
2) This is fairly long compared to the concept on your model
3) This is not amazingly deep on the concept certainly not enough to cause total black shadows like on your model it is only a little indent
4) You may need some edge wear your current model does not have much if any
5)This can be explained in the section below with the picture
6) The colour of the metal is too purpleish
7) This is quite rounded while yours is fairly flat
1 is the concept 2 is yours as you can see the bolts on the concept have a wider flat area and are less spherical
@Stevston
Holy shit, what a difference,I'll try it out, also with the alpha channels, i havnt work with alpha in the specular before, but i assume that black: low gloss and white: high gloss. Thank you very much
@Robeomega
Yeah, the concept is awesome,and i had the same "meh" feeling when i was sitting with it in toolbag, which is why i'm posting here.
Really good point with the color, i took my color sample from the highlight on the handle, which is hwy its so orange-y, i should probably have looked more at the concept when i chose those colors.
In response.
1) Those shapes dissapeared, the mesh i had was too odd for me to add them without great hassle, and i thought to add them in NDO, and appareantly i forgot. I'm going back to the highpoly model now and changing some of the features.
2) you are absolutely right, i made the extrude along the wrong edge.
3) Yeah, i see that now, i'll try to do something about it
4) Yeah, these textures are quickly made in substance designer, they're by no means final
5) I think part of the issue here is that the cylinders are quite low poly compared to what its being baked from, the current highpoly looks like this:
in the scene, granted the extrusions in the middle are a bit deeper than what you're showing, but they're quite straight.
6) i added a color noise layer on top of the default diffuse to add some variation in the texture. This, and a few other areas, might be a bit too strong though.
7)I'm going with some beveled edges on that part, as a completely round edge there clashes with the beveled look the rest of the model has. Here's an image of the highpoly version:
I do have some very round edges on the model, which is by choice, i have time after time again made my edges too tight which have resulted in razor sharp edges in the bakes. So now i'm trying with some softer edges, and so far i'm happy with the results
Thanks for the feedback so far, i'll post updates tomorrow, its getting quite late here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnh01WJOK8o
Tomorrow i tells ya, tomorrow, for now its time for bed
I started out with modelling some of the addtional details and changing some of geometry
Afterwards i re-unwrapped the model and made a more compact version, then i started working on the texture again.
Now, i'm no great texture artist, and i'm pretty new to glossmaps and colored specular maps, which is why its currently looking a bit shitty
I'm rather happy with the blade itself, but the rest still need work, a lot of work.
I also got some very good feedback from the hangout today (Use the polycount hangouts, they're awesome), so i'll be working on some fine detail in nDo to add some more interesting features.
But its enough for today, i'm beginning to see scary faces on my texture
I've been messing around with some of the details, and working on some directional streaks, i've tried to get some wear in around the lensflare, but i'm not sure how well its working. I'm having trouble finding out how to make scratches on an already glossy material.
Mainly i've been trying to make the brass material work, and what i've got now seems a lot more closer to actual brass, it helped a lot after i realised that brass has a small amount of green in it instead of being a red/yellow combination.
Also the writing on the blade is really hard to get right. If you are going to do it don't do any color and make it a part of the normal and gloss maps. You want something more like an engraving not paint on a sword.
Here is some ref to help out:
i dont know if its too light or dark.
Edit; i'd have to add the scratches in my normalmap, doesnt seem like i can use both a bump and a normalmap in marmoset, hm.
Also is that supposed to be wood on the handle? If so you want to use a blue spec not orange. With things that aren't metal you want the color to be desaturated version of the diffuse color's compliment. So for something orange ( skin, leather, wood) you want to use blue in your specular. *NOTE* this is only for the older workflows, with the new workflows you do not have to account for energy conservation so if you ever move to a PBR engine.
I worked a bit on the specular, gloss and normal to make these scratches, i'm a bit anxious about making it more than this, as its unlikely harder scratches wouldnt change the profile of the blade, which it wasnt modelled for
It might be a bit silly reason, but i like to have my works make sense from a practical point of view (what am i doing modelling something like this?)
I'm rather happy about the result as it is, and am very close to calling it finished.
Please watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnh01WJOK8o
"what would it look like if it had been used to cut flesh and bone"
i assumed that bones would snap instead of being cut through clean, meaning that the scratches would be rather thin and not wide. If it had been used for armor and harder things the blade would have been dented, but the model isnt made for that, so i had to go with softer things.
On the other hand, that tutorial isnt the end-all and know-all of sword texturing, so i cant exactly copy his work. I have already watched it, as it was posted earlier in this thread, and i have learned a lot from it indeed.
I really miss some good referenced on used blades, but this being a modern world, its hard to find.
The closest thing i can find is probably a used butchers knife, but those things arent very worn either.
Be careful with the yellows. Do not mix cold yellow with warm red tones, that does not work. Change the gold to a more warm tone, and itll work better in terms of palette. Edit: The concept uses a warm copper tone aswell, proving my point : P
For the metal part, reduce all that texture overlay noise, what you need is painting wear properly. The edge needs painted treatment, aswell as the convexities of the grip, you cannot expect a texture to be fine with only texture overlays. I recommend watching some texturing tutorials, as theres a lot to explain.
https://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/pbr-theory
https://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/learn/pbr-practice
Moving to PBR you are going to have to rework your diffuse and specular map. With your diffuse you are going to want to remove all of the lighting information and make sure you just have essentially a color map ( metal should be black). Your specular map should have very little detail in it. It should just be a way to call out how much like a certain materiel is reflecting. If there is no change in material there is no change in your specular. You are going to be pushing most of your detail/surface shifts in your gloss maps. Last if you haven't already make sure to take advantage of the AO and Cavity map slots.
( Note metalness is a very different PBR workflow for more information on that go here http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134475)
Here are some threads to check out that will help:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123533
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131337&page=4
The "gold" is supposed to be brass, i used this image for reference, the gold might have gotten a bit too much.
I'll look up some texturing tutorials, i've got a subscription for digital tutors, they ought to have quite a few (education is good for something, yay), if you've got any recommendations i'll gladly watch them
I'll save the links for PBR texturing
The other bit is that (and I could be wrong?) I don't think both sides of the sword's blade need to be uniquely unwrapped. You'll never both sides at the same time, right? That said, we're way past the point of moving UVs around so I don't expect you to change that, but I would definitely consider more mirroring in your next project. You have obvious mirroring on the "fins" where those could have been uniquely unwrapped in favor of only one side of the blade.
Yeah, i've been using stamp, i'm not sure how i can paint it myself to make it more unique, i suppose i could use a 2px brush and go over it a lot of times.
and yes, the two sides of the blade are uniquely unwrapped, that is something i'm definitely going to do in another manner next time i make such a project. As you never see both sides of the sword at the same time.
Thank you for the very good feedback