Lighting Project Feedback
Hello and Greetings Polycount members
I am new to the polycount forums and heard it was a good place if I wanted critique and possible tips and directions on my work.
I am currently taking a class in lighting and rendering for video games and really wanted to get some feedback on some drafts I am doing, I always believe another eye helps.
I have two drafts on lighting I am doing for this scene as well as a reference picture on the kind of lighting I was going for such as a dawn time of day in somewhere like Thailand.
Any critique, feedback, comments are welcome and Thank you again.
I am new to the polycount forums and heard it was a good place if I wanted critique and possible tips and directions on my work.
I am currently taking a class in lighting and rendering for video games and really wanted to get some feedback on some drafts I am doing, I always believe another eye helps.
I have two drafts on lighting I am doing for this scene as well as a reference picture on the kind of lighting I was going for such as a dawn time of day in somewhere like Thailand.
Any critique, feedback, comments are welcome and Thank you again.
Replies
I prefer the slightly warmer fogging on the second version. I'd say you could have more contrast going on; the dome in particular is casting a strong shadow and yet is very flat on the shadowed side facing the camera.
Not sure if you can edit the scene as you specified lighting, but those plant materials need looking at, especially the green/red ones that I guess have some self illumination on as they just don't sit well in the world.
The scene as a whole just looks grey with an orange light source so if you can't make edits to improve the surfaces then some point lighting could certainly add more interest - candles inside the monument perhaps, some wall lights, uplighters?
If you're just working towards a still render then I'd experiment with moving the sun around and try to find some more interesting shadows. Look at the shapes in the scene such as the bird statues; can you find a way to draw the eye to them more?
first of all, I like the second reference image way more that the first one because you cant really see anything in the first image.
So its really hard to tweak the lighting with an image like that.
Overall, I think I like your first shot better than the second^^ (that one feels just waaay too strong = I just make everything orange mode^^)
Some things you could consider while planning a lighting situation like this (and the second reference does quite a good job in helping you with this)
- always start with analyzing why the ref image looks like it does. It sounds simple, but this is the most crucial part of getting it right. You need to fully understand whats happening there and why...then you can reproduce it (that might sound a bit overcomplicated, you dont need to now the physics behind light scattering in waterdrops in the air xD its enough if you analyze how the scene has fog and how the light hits the fog^^)
- dont do everything with the light! I think your lightcolor is way too orange. Instead you should go for a very slight orange tone and do the rest via post so you dont destroy the values of the environment.
- look how the fog behaves and set nice scattering colors that support the mood you are aiming at
You screens indeed do look almost monochromatic (lets not look at this surprisingly fresh grass
Try to get all the material colors right in unlit...and when they are good, try not to destroy them later with the lighting. You can bring them closer together, but you should take care of having every material still readable and separated.
The second reference also has some nice contrast. I would say that something like this can only be accomplished when you combine nice light and fog settings with a LUT/color correction that helps supporting your goal.
Hope this helps and looking forward to see what you come up with
Cheers!
Yes I would say I agree on the second one more as well, they haven't been rendered with full quality yet though.
And sadly since its a lighting task i cant really alter the materials, even with the extremely bright plants.
And that's a good idea, the bird statues would need stronger shadows though correct?
Yeah the second reference image is actually a bit more clear, i still wanted a bit of an orange tone to the scene, like at dawn but perhaps I took it too strong.
The difference I see with the second image would be most likely I would need to change the sky dome used in the scene as when taking the light color from the skydome I sort of ended up with that tone to the scene.
And checking the materials they are actually unlit and not emissive or illuminated. So what i am understanding is that it's better to aim for a point light rather than a omni for the sun?
That is a good suggestion, but I always figured a LUT correction would come in near the end of the editing to the lighting
Thanks so much so far
An omni and a point light is the same thing, for the sun you probably want to go for a parallel/directional light (terminology will vary depending on what you're lighting in). I get what you mean about wanting the orange but think about when you've seen a strong sunset in real life - the world doesn't turn bright orange, and as I mentioned there would be far greater contrast with the shadows if the sun is that low.
Also, you might have some extreme colours in the clouds around the suns position, but this wouldn't continue throughout the entire sky.
It's cool that you're specifically looking for lighting feedback, and it's equally as cool that you're taking a lighting for games class!
What engine are you using? This might help inform critique.
Are you able to adjust your composition? Looking down on the flat expanse isn't helping to establish depth, and focal point isn't very clear.
Biggest thing for me is that the saturation is swallowing up the image. You have this intense, pounding golden color and it's spilling with reckless abandon. There's little to no variation in color at all and it's making the scene boring.
The atmosphere is also pretty heavy, which is okay, but it's a bit washy and you're losing contrast which will help bring back some of your depth.
Key things to improve on is to add more variety in color. Soften your saturation, cool down your shadows, think about introducing a bit more coloration in your sky, possibly your fog. The yellows are choking everything. Might be interesting to see your sky get a bit darker away from the sun, possibly some cooler hues. If you can get an appealing look in an untextured mode, you're onto something.
I also feel that the image is getting pounded with light, either there's a lot of indirect/bounced lighting or you have an ambient or skylight filling the space. If you want something really dramatic, lessen the influence of your fill so that the direct lighting and shadow have more visual impact. The shadows are filling in quite a bit, fell like they'd be darker with the sun so low in the sky.
You're a bit flat right now and that's because the lighting is so intense. There's nothing wrong with intensity, but it's not balanced very well here.
Plenty more to say, but I'd love to see what you do with color and value first before moving on. Play with your composition a bit, and possibly your directional light angle for more interest in your shadow throw.
EDIT - LUTS are a good suggestion, but I'd focus on hitting your broad strokes first and then come in with the post work...in post. If you rely to heavily on correcting in post over top of a bad foundation, you'll still be fighting an uphill battle. Do as much as you can with as little as you can. Keep it extremely simple and then start layering on the sweetness.
EDIT2 - Looking at responses while I typed. Don't use an omni/point here. Use a directional light only. A spot light will fan out your shadows (looks like they're fanning a bit anyways), and an omni has directionality in 360 degrees, something you do not want. We want to feel that sun beaming down on the courtyard, and that's only possible if you use the right tool for the job.
Post iterations, and we'll keep pushing!
I have some lighting stuff in my blog if you're interested (in my signature).
Good luck to you!
-Jon
Regarding the LUT/Post thing...yeah, you should definitely try to not correct bad lighting with post...but you should also not try to achieve everything with light only.
Get the basic situation (but not as contrasty, saturated, vibrant anf fancy) settled and then start pushing it with the post. Post is there to aid and not to save
Regarding unlit...I dont mean emissive or the likes. I mean an unlit viewmode where you just see the diffuse color of everything without lighting.
That helps to get the material balance first, because if all materials look the same, you cant save it with the lighing
Cheers!
Thanks, it is definitely alot more artistic than the usual scripting and level design I usually have dealt with but still very interesting.
I think to set things clear besides for a bump map (not the best one mind you) set on the materials, they are not even mental ray materials. I plan on first getting good lighting and a render in 3ds Max and then move on to relight the scene in a game engine Cryengine 3 which from using I think would be good for this. But for now I am focused on my 3DS Max Render. Since cause its game lighting as well it would be beneficial to get the hang of both.
So for cooling down my shadows, you mean as they should be lighter or toned in a slightly different color? For balancing the light and softening the saturation, ease up on the heavy color and go with more of a white light or try blending another color as well?
But Thanks for the big tip on that, so a directional light it is. It should be Photometric though, correct? Since its mental ray I am rendering in.
Thanks everyone here very much so far, definitely gives me more to push on right away.