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Modeling from References

I've always had this big issue with traditional modeling. I know that it's common for the references not to match one another completely, but I've never been given any real advice as to which area to follow. By that, I mean should I use the front ref or side ref to keep the overall look of the face. This is just something that I have to learn for continuing to put things off will more than likely be my downfall in the future.

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  • EarthQuake
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    There are no hard rules here, really it just depends.

    When working from photographic reference, you have to take into considartion various camera-related issues like perspective distortion which will prevent things from lining up and will skew your proportions if you follow a photo ref as if its an ortho. Generally you should settle on a 3/4ths perspective shot and make sure to match up the likeness there.

    With illustrations, generally you'll want to match the most finished/important view, and other views are often there for rough guides. If you're not sure which to match for overall proportions and style, ask whoever supplied the concept.
  • Melodeus
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    EarthQuake wrote: »
    There are no hard rules here, really it just depends.

    When working from photographic reference, you have to take into considartion various camera-related issues like perspective distortion which will prevent things from lining up and will skew your proportions if you follow a photo ref as if its an ortho. Generally you should settle on a 3/4ths perspective shot and make sure to match up the likeness there.

    With illustrations, generally you'll want to match the most finished/important view, and other views are often there for rough guides. If you're not sure which to match for overall proportions and style, ask whoever supplied the concept.

    If a person were to render out front and side references of a modeled character, would perspective distortion occur? I tend to keep 2 viewports(Front,Side) on Orthographic and a 3rd on Perspective.
  • Leinad
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    Leinad polycounter lvl 11
    The perspective distortion is based on the camera in your scene and it varies depending on the lens it uses. If you're in maya and are in the side or front camera view then the perspective distortion should be off. If you're creating characters don't get too caught up on lining everything up in orthographic views. Get the silhouette down and most of your time should be spent on getting the likeness right.

    Just stay positive and keep at it, what you're doing is fairly challenging so it's normal to have difficulty.
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • Melodeus
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    Leinad I'm in Max and by default, I believe the view cube's right and left are set to Ortho. I'll keep it all in mind. Was a bit wary of the entire process for a while. Thank you.

    TeriyakiStyle So, this is pretty much the same image. Is the 350 MM the default Lens that the human eye picks up on btw? Also, is it o.k to use the default perspective(P) view for the first iteration of working from references?
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • Melodeus
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    waa? it's not the same image.

    You were talking about lining things up with a photograph on a face. You can't rely on the source for accuracy if you didn't take it yourself. And if you do take it yourself use higher focal length to lessen perspective distortion and then match your 3d cam to the same focal length for good measure.

    Ah! I thought that it was the same image, just with different lens types to show the differe- Oh. It's the same person, but more an example of "focal length" being a huge variable which distorts the actual image. I think that's what that reel of photos are. So, the Focal Length at a high amount feels like you're attempting to reach a tight enough view that the distortion is either there, but not as noticeable or pretty much gone. I don't really have a camera to take my own photos which is unfortunate... I also didn't know that cameras should be used for references. It feels like a linear workflow. Sorry about the confusion. :\
  • EarthQuake
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    The photo shows the same subject shot with the same framing but different focal length/lenses. 19mm being the wide angle end and 350mm being long telephoto.

    The camera is moved progressively further back for each shot starting at 19 and going up to 350mm. Moving the camera further away means the perspective gets more compressed, and moving it closer to the subject means the perspective gets more distorted or exaggerated.

    The focal length of the lens doesn't actually have anything to do with perspective, its all about the distance to the subject. What the focal length does determine is the angle of view, which will determine the distance to subject for the given framing/crop, so 85mm or longer are generally considered focal lengths for portraits, as the distance they require the camera to be from the subject for say, a headshot, tends to result in flattering compressed perspective.

    For reference you want to further compress the perspective, so even longer focal lengths are ideal.

    If the EXIF info is available for your given reference, you may be able to work out what focal length was used (though there are conversions that need to be done depending on camera/format). This probably isn't reliable enough though, as it won't take into account any cropping. Say if a photographer took a photo at 85mm from 3m and 6m away, and cropped the 6m shot to match the 3m shot, the perspective would be more compressed with the 6mm shot, even though they are shot with the same focal length lens.

    Distance to subject is really the most important factor if you're taking your own reference, as that is what dictates perspective, followed by a lens of appropriate focal length for the framing that you desire, and the camera is really of very little importance unless you have very specific resolution requirements.

    TL;DR: Try to be aware of perspective compression and distortion in photographic reference, with enough experience you should be able to spot it without knowing much technical stuff about photography.
  • Melodeus
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    EarthQuake wrote: »
    The photo shows the same subject shot with the same framing but different focal length/lenses. 19mm being the wide angle end and 350mm being long telephoto.

    The camera is moved progressively further back for each shot starting at 19 and going up to 350mm. Moving the camera further away means the perspective gets more compressed, and moving it closer to the subject means the perspective gets more distorted or exaggerated.

    The focal length of the lens doesn't actually have anything to do with perspective, its all about the distance to the subject. What the focal length does determine is the angle of view, which will determine the distance to subject for the given framing/crop, so 85mm or longer are generally considered focal lengths for portraits, as the distance they require the camera to be from the subject for say, a headshot, tends to result in flattering compressed perspective.

    For reference you want to further compress the perspective, so even longer focal lengths are ideal.

    If the EXIF info is available for your given reference, you may be able to work out what focal length was used (though there are conversions that need to be done depending on camera/format). This probably isn't reliable enough though, as it won't take into account any cropping. Say if a photographer took a photo at 85mm from 3m and 6m away, and cropped the 6m shot to match the 3m shot, the perspective would be more compressed with the 6mm shot, even though they are shot with the same focal length lens.

    Distance to subject is really the most important factor if you're taking your own reference, as that is what dictates perspective, followed by a lens of appropriate focal length for the framing that you desire, and the camera is really of very little importance unless you have very specific resolution requirements.

    TL;DR: Try to be aware of perspective compression and distortion in photographic reference, with enough experience you should be able to spot it without knowing much technical stuff about photography.

    Oh no. This is my first time reading the entire passage. I'm not going to pass up the technical insides of the subject. This is all new to me, so I'm going to have to be a bit more understanding of how it works. To be honest, no one mentioned this through my entire 3-4 years of self-teaching.
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