ZBrush Vehicle WIP

recronin · Jul 2013

Hi,
I'm struggling with ZBrush and am trying to make a vehicle model shown in the image below:

I've basically created each object as an independent 32 res dynamesh sphere and used the move and smooth brushes to somewhat refine, with a little bit of clip curve as well. I'm not really pleased with the way it's coming out as there are many lumps I'm having trouble smoothing out.

Should I only be doing broad edits to the dynamesh? Sorry, I'm just not used to modeling this way but I'm determined to learn how.

Thanks,
Adam Lawton

cryrid · Jul 2013

I like keeping dynamesh resolutions down when working on organic models, but for hard surface stuff like this you'll often need to crank it up a bit in order to get cleaner looking surfaces.

Preferably I'd just keep the dynamesh high, do whatever needs to be done with the slice and clay/planar brushes to work out the volume I need, and then probably go back with zspheres or the topology brush to work in a cleaner edgeflow with some nice polygroups and creasing.

Neox · Jul 2013

just model it, takes a fraction of the time and will be waaaay cleaner

WarrenM · Jul 2013

I have to agree with Neox I know Pixologic is really trying to convince people to do hard surface modeling in ZBrush but traditional modeling is still many orders of magnitude faster and cleaner.

recronin · Jul 2013

Thank you for all of the replies. I went ahead and built a low res version of the model in Maya and brought it into ZBrush but am still having problems.

Here is a screenshot of the model with wires; a clean render can be put up if requested:

Basically as you can see the model is broken up into many polygroups - my plan of attack is to start with the top wheel (the pink one on the far left) and duplicate each instanced one. I then isolated areas of the wheel to put in creases and then subdivided to smooth it out. The problem as you can see is the inner extrude of the wheel and how the topology is unclean:

To try to fix this I used the Remesh and Project All options, but I ended up losing a lot of the detail.

I have to believe that ZBrush is more than capable of easily creating hard surface models such as this - I've been watching many videos including those in ZClassroom of people creating wonderful things, but am unable to do so myself. The problem is clearly mine, and I thank you for your patience in helping me with this.

Xoliul · Jul 2013

This looks like a really easy thing to just model traditionally... I'd suggest you stick with that instead of insisting on Zbrush.

recronin · Jul 2013

I agree that it is a simple enough model, however I took a risk in relocating to CA to get a job in games that has not panned out yet, am living off savings and bought a ZBrush license. The vast majority of studios seem to use either ZBrush or Mudbox (or highly value such knowledge at least) and I therefore insist upon learning. I have a strong Maya background but If I can't model something simple in ZBrush then I may as well have just stayed in FL working in simulation.

Xoliul · Jul 2013

Well i can tell you right now that nobody in his right mind uses Zbrush for this sort of thing in games. Doing this sort of thing with Zbrush really won't get you anywhere.
I suggest using Zbrush what it is intended for, sculpting organic things. Or at least get this DVD: http://eat3d.com/zbrush_hardsurface

cryrid · Jul 2013

Personally I'm all for dedicating a personal project to learning how to work with hard surface models in zbrush. The worse that could happen is that you end the project with more knowledge and experience than when you began.

Looking at the last 6 releases of zbrush, I think it's pretty evident that the program is now intended to be used to sculpt anything, not just organic models. It's not there yet, mind you. For actual production it will be more useful to work with a traditional modeling program (where it can be easier to make revisions, for example). But when you're just throwing together concept sculpts, working on smaller hard surface elements, or are the one in charge of the final look, then the speed of zbrush can really shine. Breaking that chair into smaller shapes I can see some that I would certainly prefer to do the traditional way, and others that I think would be easier and/or more fun to do in zbrush.

If this is a project meant to learn zbrush, then my first bit of advice would be to split those separate elements into their own respective subtools. It becomes much easier to work on individual shapes when they are isolated, and you can get more localized control when it comes to things like subdividing and retopologizing.

The second bit of advice would be to focus on understanding the type of topology you need to sculpt the type of details you want. If you're making something like that wheel in another program with the intention to sculpt on it, you wouldn't want all those triangles on the cap fanning to a single vertex on the edge of it. Depending on the shape, you'll likely want either a series of insets (like you'd see here), or a grid like pattern (like this, though you can get away with having it even simpler).

If you have a mesh that subdivides well, try and keep it like that. If you're working on a hard surface shape using dynamesh instead of clean geometry, you'll probably want a high resolution more than anything.

Noors · Jul 2013

Doing such mechanical stuff with zbrush is like doing a model in matches. I would first be impressed by the dedication, then i'd think "but why ?"

I'm all for concepting mechanical parts in zbrush, experiment with shapes,
example on the net
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vucGRMeXDUM/TNrg_CYzr3I/AAAAAAAAAp0/2o6VvNnZEc8/s1600/2.jpg
or this
http://cgterminal.com/2011/10/19/zbrush-mecha-trooper-concepting-tutorial/

but the final thing to me has to be in regular hard surface modeling. Way more versatile, easier to adjust, lighter, cleaner...
(edit : previously wrote hardware instead of hardsurface haha, sorry i'm a tired french person)

And for this model in particular, clearly i don't see what would be the benefit of modeling it in zbrush. Imo there are references (spaceships....) that would be more interessant to concept in zbrush to learn hard surface modeling.

See, you've already made the blocking. Now you just have to add all the support edges to be already close from the end. What would you do in zbrush ? Blob things up and try to resharp and polish them ?

Once you've made a hard surface model in max or maya, it's still time to add scratches, welding or whatever in zbrush.

St.Sabath · Jul 2013

I agree with all comments above,you have to keep in mind that in a production environment,you find yourself doing iterations/adjustments om your assets most of the time.
Those are are a result of the design department(design changes),an art director/lead who changes his mind,levelgeometry/gameplay changes etc etc.
With this in mind,if i would hand this asset to an artist in the studio,i'd expect them to have rough in-engine version running in about a day.Then design and AD will pick up on it most of the time to reiterate,and as a result youll be presented with the changes that are needed for this asset(this can happen multiple times).Now with Zbrush you can fleshout a quick prototype of an art asset,but doing changes to it is a bit more difficult then when you would do it the conventional way imo.If you would do it the conventional way,youll keep it lowpoly untill all departments are happy,and the model can be detailed further.Zbrush has its purpose,but for an asset like this ,ill beat a ZB artist hands down doing it the conventional way.just my 2 cents..

ZBrush Vehicle WIP

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