Hard edges in unwanted areas

Mayalicious · Apr 2013

Hello mates. I am trying to model a hover bike for modeling practice. I have stucked on a situation which i cant make it look good. Here i am adding pictures that describe the problem clearly. I am also attaching the .obj file. If you can help me, ill be glad. Thank you!

Model;

Wireframe;

Adding supporting edges;

Bad Result;

And this is the .obj file for the model without adding these supporting edges;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ztd5wgg8oltq0ub/hoverbike.obj

Gungriffon Geona · Apr 2013

I've been fighting with this sort of issue myself for a long time, and I've never found a means to counter it. if anyone out there has some answers, please help!

Bartalon · Apr 2013

I hate modifying curved surfaces! I try to mitigate this effect by cutting my mesh into non-contiguous chunks to keep edge loops from running across surfaces that don't require them.

I've found that trying to reinforce an opening along a curved surface yields much better results if there are a lot of edge loops to start with before actually making any modifications.

In the image below, I took the cylinder on the left and subdivided it twice before attempting to reinforce an edge loop along its surface. I think if I had subdivided one more time the crease would have been virtually invisible.

The problem has to do with edge loop averaging when you smooth. The smaller the gap between edge loops, the shorter the distance supporting edge loops travel as they smooth. Actually subdividing (Mesh Smooth) creates a more "averaged" curvature of your shape so the effects of supporting loops are less noticeable.

Farfarer · Apr 2013

If you can, try and terminate those extra loops in an ngon somewhere hidden.

You can play around and get it all quads, but usually ngons somewhere out of sight work nicely enough. Terminating loops in quads can sometimes be more effort than it's worth.

| | | |  < extra loops
_______
|     |  < ngon with 8 sides
_______
|     |  < less loops

EarthQuake · Apr 2013

There is really no need to model this object as one solid connected mesh. In reality any complex mechanical object is going to be built up from a variety of smaller pieces. Use this to your advantage and construct your highpoly with as many separate mesh chunks as logical.

Also, check out this thread: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74848

wirrexx · Apr 2013

this thread is quite intresting. cause i've found that most of my problems usually happens when trying to go from a Hard edged into a smoothed area. And i often think "Is there a possibility to modell this as a seperate piece but make it seem as if it's connected".

I know that sometimes N-gons works fine (as long as they are on a flat area and not close to a edge?) The same thing with Tris.

Is there a possibility for you to make that part seperate as a floating object and still make it look good? then try so.

It's not recomended to convert poly's to Nurbs. in the edit menu select Convert-> polygons to sub divisions and try the videos i posted down .
ou could draw curves and then just to a NURBs fillet and leave it like that or convert it to polys.

PUT IN MIND, im new to this and still learning been modeling for the past 5-6 months but im still learning many great ways to do stuff by mixing nurbs and polygons (converting the first mentioned part to polys when finisheD)

wirrexx · Apr 2013

If i am Correct you are working with maya, have you ever looked up fillet blend tool?
now this is only for Nurbs, but it will cover up to objects and fill the space between them.

[ame="

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmdlFCmowQQ"]Maya Tutorial: 42- Blend Fillet Tool.mov - YouTube[/ame] take a look at that, just to get a hum what i am talking about!

[ame="

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2blYvA4NBY"]Maya: How to trim NURBS surfaces | lynda.com tutorial - YouTube[/ame] and take a look at this might help!

Plyomet · Apr 2013

Are you willing to have triangles on your model? If so, then I can upload a quick video of how to fix it. If not, then... I'm stumped.

wirrexx · Apr 2013

@Plyomet, i'd like to see what you can do there. Im up for learning to!

Dubzski · Apr 2013

EarthQuake wrote: »

There is really no need to model this object as one solid connected mesh. In reality any complex mechanical object is going to be built up from a variety of smaller pieces. Use this to your advantage and construct your highpoly with as many separate mesh chunks as logical.

Also, check out this thread: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74848

This is the most sensible solution to your problem. Don't fight the program, instead learn tips and tricks to bend it to your will. There is usually nothing wrong with breaking up an object as long as its done sensibly.
When i was first learning 3D i tried to make everything attached... bad move! 3D modelling is half about faking it, to make it, imo lol.

Plyomet · Apr 2013

First time I've recorded something, didn't realise I had sound available, otherwise I would have talked you through it (and wouldn't have been making noise hence me adding a soundtrack to get rid of them), but basically what others say is correct, you don't want those loops over the whole mesh, so you extract the faces to create it's own mesh, add your edge loops, cut the opposite faces to give them something for your verts to attach to, and then reattach it.

And if I'd thought about it, I would have put the perspective window to full screen so you can see what's happening easier.

If this is poor form, please let me know, as I'm still new to this stuff myself!

Also, not sure how I upload a video in to here, so here's a link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT_mogOp9vU&feature=youtu.be

wirrexx · Apr 2013

earthquake: care to share with us how you would go around to make those seperated and at the same time make'em look "Wielded"

Mayalicious · Apr 2013

Thank you very much guys! Lots of nice information here! I will definately ask questions in here when i stuck in the future. Because i asked this question in some of the "well-known" forums and no one replied so thank you again, really! Also thank you Plyomet for your video! But i am not really sure about using tris in that areas. In your video the final output looked very nice but there wasnt a closer shot. So i dont know how it will look in closer shots. Of course i'll try. What i tried; there is something called p-sub subdivision in Luxology Modo and it supports edge weighting. I imported my mesh from Maya to modo and select only the edges that i want to give harder look and add edge weight to them and voila, perfect result!

So heres is my new question; in Modos web site i read in somewhere that it says maya also supports psubs. It was saying you can use the same output (edge weighted) in Maya. But how, anyone knows it? Thanks.

Mayalicious · Apr 2013

Okay i am answering my question. I figured it out. With FBX 2010.2 you can exchange the semi-sharp crease data between modo and Maya. And here is a test render from Maya/MentalRay;

wirrexx · Apr 2013

Turned out good, alot of people are supporting and using Modo, cause it seems like the modelling is acctually better than Maya. As soon as i have money. I need to buy and try it!

WarrenM · Apr 2013

Damn, just tried this in Max and it didn't work. I would love to work in Modo and then transfer my edge weights to Max for final prep! Ahh well..

HAWK12HT · Apr 2013

Before I found Polycount, this dude helped me alot like way back in early 2000.

http://www.onnovanbraam.com/index.php?tutorials/

wirrexx · Apr 2013

No possibility that this tool is available in Maya 2014? :P höhö

wirrexx · Apr 2013

Btw, tried the Maya 2014 trial. And can Say that the Crease Editor works just as good as Modo version! love it!

Hard edges in unwanted areas

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