How are you able to objectively look at your work?
It seems I am having issues with that right now. I recently created a dota 2 weapon and finally got some feedback on it. Every single piece of feedback was negative about it. All of it basically told me to just scrap it and try again. Even after being told by 10+ people that it is just awful, I actually still really like it. Anyways this is not about my bickering, I am wondering how the fine folks on polycount objectively look at their work.
Replies
While it's important not to be insular from feedback, I've read common joes calling just about every game under the sun ugly, do they offer any feedback on what in particular is wrong? Post it here, the awesome artists on this board can help.
Best way to be objective is not to take things personall. This means that you should remember its the object that is criticized, not your personality (or the color of your socks). A good practice thats good for you and for your future colleagues in any line of work.
PrototypeT800 - Rude or not, he's right. It's great that you got it modeled, textured and in the game. Those are the basic steps. Now you need to start pushing your skill set. The best way to do that is what you're doing - asking for critique. But you need to be asking the right people. This forum will help you if you leverage it correctly.
Also, look at your work and think what did you learn about it, and how can you make it better if you were to redo it. that always helps.
So take critiques and apply them... see how it works and iterate. Art is a very iterative process, and it can only get better and better with your hard work.
for ( art = suck; art < good; art++ )
{
work
}
Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily think everything I do is a bucket of ass, as I know that I usually only get a day or two to make a character, or I had to rush to hit some deadline, or I juggled three or four different things at the same time, or the client made decisions I didn't agree with. But I do always worry that if I think that something is great and above all criticism, that I've lost my objectivity as an artist and won't ever be able to push my skills any further. I've met artists who think they're the shit when they weren't necessarily all that great, and stagnating like that gives me the fear.
Just post up here, get the consensus. You're not obligated to take on everyone's advice but if enough people tell you the same thing, chances are there's things you need to look at. It's really easy to get the feel that something's wrong but not be able to work out what it is, and it's often things that others can spot really easily - just what happens when you stare at something for too long - fresh eyes can help so much, even if it's just putting aside for a day and looking at it again.
I do think a high-degree of self-criticality is hugely important to address your weaknesses and push your skills along but that might be something you develop with time, once the initial 'wow' of doing something in 3d fades!
If you've been working hard on something for a while...your really zoned in and focused on it...its really hard to be objective.
Take a day or 2 off without looking at it and come back...that can help.
also as been said- rest your eyes from the project for a while and return to it fresh.
First I look at things that get a positive response, then look at what they say about it.
Lets say they said awesome blade or very original which anything original stands out way more to me than something that has been over done but gets a positive response anyway though they would still try to compare anything you do to something else, why? i don't know, people just do that.
Then I ask myself why do I like It, focus on that then add in what others have said and debate to yourself how you could do something similar or how you can make your current design stand out just like the others.
I always ask myself why do I like this (with everything I do.) and keep those in mind while I am working or jot them down to look back on my item when observing it after a few renditions/iterations.
These can be from many weapon designs not just one, not that I do this but you could try to mix and match so something from here that people like with something from another.
But stealing/using/adding a certain aspect of a design into your designs is something I would try not to do ever, also people will just say oh you took that from such and such..like the chain saw on the front of the gun from gears of war, don't add that try to find something else you can do that has the general idea of what you wanted to get across. (yes it was cool and anyone can make fan art from it.
Just strive to be original that's how you stand out to everyone if you want to be different from the same old same, I know it is hard but it is a challenge, challenge yourself.)
Also posting the design in question might help you out more.
every good artist should always see flaws in their work and be one step ahead in observation than execution.
you get good at observation by constantly looking at high end art both traditional and digital. if you just keep looking at your own work and few works in polycount then you wont evolve.
I typically hate everything Justin makes as well.
If you're just starting out, it's one of those things that is going to take some time. As you grow as an artist, your objectivity will increase. Just seems to be part of the process, and I'm not sure there's any magic answer that will help other than keep working on stuff and trying to improve. Take what people have said to heart, but don't let it hurt your feelings.
One thing to always keep in mind is feedback is not personal (usually).
That said, I don't know if one can ever truly look at his own work objectively. Pretty much every time I make anything, it sounds like the best idea on earth and it's gonna be totally awesome when I'm done. It's not until after I'm done, or at some point far into the process, that I realize that no, it actually sucks balls. But even at that point I may realize it's a piece of shit, but it's MY piece of shit, so I still somewhat like it.
So at the end I probably end up over-valuing some aspects of my work, while under-valuing other aspects.
This
You should notice a slight improvement in them, going from 1 through to 10.
This is what you want. This is what you should feed off.
I might have to try that, though I doubt I could come up with 10 original designs. Also thank you for all of the wonderful insight.
Anyway, it's perfectly okay to be proud of your own work, and you should be, but don't allow that to lead to complacency. Ask these people who critiqued it just what exactly needs improved upon, and get back to work.
Usually in a matter of minutes I spot things I wouldn't have in the moment. So that really helps.
But if you have the time, then it's like what Justin said.
But yeah in the end I rarely ever like my work, I try to implement as many critiques as I can even if I don't agree with them, because in the end I would be happy with my work anyways haha.
So, in my opinion it's more of a matter of never being able to complete work. I think a healthy way to consider less than stellar work is to see it as something that is incomplete, and if you can see everything you do as incomplete it's easier to be critical of all your work and to continue to look for improvements.
Refreshing your eyes is also super important as others have said. Something that has helped me is to treat the first time making something as a test run, whatever it is.
So for example I might sculpt a head and figure out what I want for it and work on it until my eyes see it as acceptable, then maybe take a screengrab, discard the sculpt and make a new sculpt from the very beginning all the way through, but this time I'm working decisively and have fresh eyes throughout the process. With the ability to be more concise and sure of where I'm going with things and forward through the whole process, I'm able to help prevent my vision from denaturing and seeing shit as gold. I don't reference the old work at all until the end; I might look at the screen grab to see if there were any characteristics that I got lucky to capture well the first time and make sure that I've been able to maintain that.
It's easier to be critical of realism (perhaps that's why I like it) because you can objectively compare it to reality. Does it look real? No, why? Fix those things. For pieces that aren't realistic you can ask other people for their thoughts and advice, but if you see something you consider 'stylized' as gold and someone else thinks it looks like shit, it can be difficult to get anywhere. That's more a matter of design, and while there are principles it's like music, things can break the rules and be amazing and you don't know why but you know, and things can follow the rules and be dull and unlikeable, it's a difficult thing to qualify.
JK! Justin does fantastic work and that's the real reason I hate him =P
Oh calm down Justin you know I'm kidding JEEZE you get so touchy! (again I kid)
In general I hate just about everything I make and generally only see flaws and mistakes, even when I come back to it after a few days of being away.
The ability to make comparisons and use your critical eye are what enable growth as an artist. You can be proud that you made something but at least be real about where that item sits in the grand spectrum of similar items.
Yeah you achieved something!
But now you need to figure out why it sits at one end of the spectrum and the other items are at the other end. That is when the real learning comes into play. If you put both ends of the spectrum side by side and honestly can't see a difference then you're going to have trouble growing and I don't think anyone pointing out the differences will actually help you improve? You would just be relying on their critical eye skills and like you said you don't even think their critique would mean much because to you its perfect?