It's pretty much impossible to have a whole head topology without a few 5 edged poles, you just generally want to make sure they aren't around areas that will be deformed quite a bit during animation, but even then it's not always a huge problem depending on the context.
I have accepted that there will be some. I used to believe a magician could show me a simple and effective method for removing them, but I know this is not the case.
I', assuming, because of how poly flow works for a human head, that they are simply inevitable - the face's muscles natural split in different directions at certain points.
Looking at this model I do think there are too many, perhaps I need to relocate them.
In your opinion, would you change anything glaringly obvious that I'm not seeing?
Yea I rig up and animate faces all day and it's not huge issue to have a few 5 edged poles, sitting around the face. I prefer a few 5 edge poles to the nightmare geometry that gets created as people try to avoid using them.
For me the two big factors that effect their placement are:
1) Do they cause loops to re-route to weird places?
I use loops to select pieces while I skin and create morphs. If a lip loop takes a crazy path through the forehead I have to waste time cleaning up the selection, which slows me down.
2) Do they effect deformation?
Most of the time they don't but it can get weird if they are along the center seam of the face, especially in the center of the forehead, off to the side like you have it is fine.
I think the corner of the mouth needs some work. Personally I like it when there is a pole at the corners of the mouth that separates the upper lip loops from the lower lip loops. This makes working with the lips independently a bit easier.
It helps to define the brow ridge and give enough loops to the eyebrows to make them expressive without texture stretching.
Often people just paint eyebrows wherever and don't consider the underlying edges, they will often paint eyebrows that sprawl across several patches of polys making it hard to animate without texture stretching.
I've done a good bit of work since to improve the model and its made a huge difference.
What has been interesting has been learning about polyflow and how to use the 5 edge pole to an advantage - previously I'd have written off 5EP's as something that was completely unacceptable, this is not the case, they should be limited, yes, but using them wisely is a great lesson to be aware of - never seen it taught anywhwere. I hope to pass it on.
Poles cause pinching and surface artifacts. That's not always a bad thing. You can use them to achieve surface details where otherwise you'd need much more geometry. for instance, they can be useful for better defining the temporal ridge (your avoidance of one in that region is making an overly round, cartoony look).
Generally, you'd not have a pole on your main deformation loop but you can get away with it on your outer "bookend" loops. The reason being is the deformation results can be unpredictable.
Hello again peeps, thanks for your support so far - here is a little more work - some areas are stressing me out, need someone elses eye to look at these poles and weather or not you think they'll be problematic.
Yea for a long time it sat with just the body articulation, but earlier this year he fleshed out the start of the face articulation, there is still a lot to do but based what he has already posted there is a lot that can be learned.
For those that don't know, Brian Tindall runs the site and is a Technical Director at Pixar so you have to cut him some slack, he is a busy guy. You also have to thank him for his monumental effort and the simple and clear way he has taken on such a complex task.
Wow, thanks for pointing me towards this incredible resource Mr.Dygert ! I'm considering a complete remodel after seeing this, wonderful stuff - a million gratitudes !
here is a example of the face mesh that i use as a starting pt. for all the characters that i help create at work. Pole changes are your friend and they are very use full in facial articulation.
Replies
I have accepted that there will be some. I used to believe a magician could show me a simple and effective method for removing them, but I know this is not the case.
I', assuming, because of how poly flow works for a human head, that they are simply inevitable - the face's muscles natural split in different directions at certain points.
Looking at this model I do think there are too many, perhaps I need to relocate them.
In your opinion, would you change anything glaringly obvious that I'm not seeing?
http://wiki.polycount.com/FaceTopology
The new line going into the nostril can terminate with a triangle inside.
For me the two big factors that effect their placement are:
1) Do they cause loops to re-route to weird places?
I use loops to select pieces while I skin and create morphs. If a lip loop takes a crazy path through the forehead I have to waste time cleaning up the selection, which slows me down.
2) Do they effect deformation?
Most of the time they don't but it can get weird if they are along the center seam of the face, especially in the center of the forehead, off to the side like you have it is fine.
I think the corner of the mouth needs some work. Personally I like it when there is a pole at the corners of the mouth that separates the upper lip loops from the lower lip loops. This makes working with the lips independently a bit easier.
It helps to define the brow ridge and give enough loops to the eyebrows to make them expressive without texture stretching.
Often people just paint eyebrows wherever and don't consider the underlying edges, they will often paint eyebrows that sprawl across several patches of polys making it hard to animate without texture stretching.
I've done a good bit of work since to improve the model and its made a huge difference.
What has been interesting has been learning about polyflow and how to use the 5 edge pole to an advantage - previously I'd have written off 5EP's as something that was completely unacceptable, this is not the case, they should be limited, yes, but using them wisely is a great lesson to be aware of - never seen it taught anywhwere. I hope to pass it on.
Generally, you'd not have a pole on your main deformation loop but you can get away with it on your outer "bookend" loops. The reason being is the deformation results can be unpredictable.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/d_wmRL53JcIYskgXXxEnhgKsQ249J2MWrQm2zdNCH04?feat=directlink
http://www.hippydrome.com/
Not only will it help you with edge flow and poles, but it will help you understand deformation and skin weighting.
For those that don't know, Brian Tindall runs the site and is a Technical Director at Pixar so you have to cut him some slack, he is a busy guy. You also have to thank him for his monumental effort and the simple and clear way he has taken on such a complex task.
here is a example of the face mesh that i use as a starting pt. for all the characters that i help create at work. Pole changes are your friend and they are very use full in facial articulation.
http://www.hippydrome.com/ArticFace.html
http://www.hippydrome.com/iBookExmpls.html
Cheers,
HD