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unreal engine 4 VS SE's luminous engine?

polycounter lvl 10
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melviso polycounter lvl 10
After seeing both demos for Unreal engine 4 which is awesome and Luminous engine which was breathtaking.Gat to admit luminous engine looks better than Unreal 4 but might be harder to use to make games.

What is ur opinion about the engines u saw?BTW,is unreal engine 4 free like unreal engine 3?

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  • Gestalt
    It doesn't seem there are any plans to distribute Luminous outside of Square while it is very likely that UE4 will get the UDK treatment. That's the most important distinction.
  • Ace-Angel
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    Ace-Angel polycounter lvl 7
    Yep, your chances of getting the LE is next to zero, SE specifically said they plan on keeping it inhouse engine vs. public.

    On the other hand, UE4 is gonna get the UDK treatment sooner or later.

    Also, one more thing, the LE demo's that peeps saw was non-interactive, meaning we don't have an actual idea on what it would feel like to be 'in it', vs just watching a cinematic being rendered real-time, and based upon history alone, Epic has a much better track record on that then SE.

    Still plenty to see in 2014...
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz quad damage
    Actually Square said they will offer the Luminous engine to any contracted studios as well (like N-Space). So if you work for any studios affiliated with them there's a good chance you may eventually get to try it.
  • ambershee
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    ambershee polycounter lvl 13
    I'd say there's no point even debating it until enough people get their feet wet with either engine long enough to form an educated opinion over them.
  • Pancakes
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    Pancakes polycounter lvl 10
    wow, I have to say it looks to me that Luminous rapes CE and UDK up the arse. At one point I thought I was watching a Diablo III pre rendered cutscene when that girl was drinking that poshun

    I'm not surprised, to me asia is the birthplace of the greatest video games so why not the greatest game engine. I think with Nintendo leading the helm at first, they took a position that technology takes a back seat, but now with the west making so much money they are finally switching positions. And now square might only sell to their licenses to japanese developers in order to stimulate japan's video game economy or something I wouldn't be surprised

    Btw, the guy who is chanting is the guy from Ranma 1/2 who is always hitting on Akane and "girl-time Ranma". I got a kick out of that lol
  • cryrid
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    cryrid greentooth
    All I can tell is that they both look great. Beyond that, one has actors and fast-moving cameras, the other has awesome breaking rocks and lava magic.
  • gsokol
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    gsokol Polycount Sponsor
    Really, its comparing apples to oranges right now.

    You can say that Luminous looks soo much better..but its a non interactive sequence that is only designed to show off graphics. It was a cinematic, every shot was well composed and prepared specifically to be seen at one angle, whereas the ue4 demo targeted specific tools that the engine gives to the user.
  • Minato
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    Minato polycounter lvl 5
    Technically i highly doubt it that LE has anything more advanced going on than Unreal Engine 4,if not the other way around,it's just that we had pretty FF-ish characters and a more fastpace action on one side and a Bulky fire breathing demon knight and a volcano on the other,they(LE) put the emphasis on character animation and rendering which is a more prominent element in their games and Epic put the emphasis on lighting and it's interaction with the other elements of the demo,which is something that used to be on everybody's mind about the new engine(you know the whole will we finally see a fully dynamic lighting solution stuff),so i'm going to wait for a future technical demo which i'm sure will cover much more including human skin and a more fast paced action,i think there's much more to this engine than we have seen in the past few days...
  • velesius
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    velesius polycounter lvl 11
    About LE, there is a video that shows editor, not just a pre rendered sequence http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Q9xhFpuIMX4#. There is camera movement, hair and lighting editing.
  • Neox
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    Neox hero character
    but what it doesn't say is on which machine this is running - but anyways, it is still very much produced for the shot, not for running around in the scene beeign able to look at everything from any angle - you tweak a hell lot by knowing whats going to be seen and what not
  • Pancakes
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    Pancakes polycounter lvl 10
    I think the skeptical comments are reinforcing just how amazing Luminous is. People aren't even willing to believe their own eyes!
  • cman2k
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    cman2k polycounter lvl 15
    We have very few details on Luminous...and it's very easy to lie to the eyes. :P
  • CrazyButcher
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    CrazyButcher polycounter lvl 16
    Actually while LE was very directed and "movie" like, UE4 didn't show a lot of moving things ;) so they both have taken shortcuts. LE felt a bit more "complete" on that end, but who knows, afaik both are for next-gen consoles (and in UE4s case PC as well).

    I don't think we have to do this "who is better" game. Cause frankly it's probably who threw more money at the demo making. If you compare the first games on xbox360/ps3 vs the stuff that comes out now, it's also "worlds inbetween", as people use stuff they get better in using it. I guess the only thing that matters is who can use it, and I guess Unreal will win on that front ;)
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 12
    This almost seems like the sort of thing gamer "experts" argue about in Kotaku comments...
    The only thing that really matters to us is which has the best balance of power/features to ease of use. We'll probably get to find that out for UE4 (as they've even shown some of it), but not for the Luminous engine.
  • mLichy
    If the UE4 video had better art/spent the time/money they did on the FF Demo, I bet it would look just as good, if not better.
  • Futzy
    mLichy wrote: »
    If the UE4 video had better art/spent the time/money they did on the FF Demo, I bet it would look just as good, if not better.

    The UE4 demo was also running on a consumer level system with an i7 and a single GTX 680. I highly doubt the same can be said for the Agni demo, as much as I'd love to see visuals like that being feasible in the near future.
  • Gestalt
    Futzy wrote: »
    The UE4 demo was also running on a consumer level system with an i7 and a single GTX 680. I highly doubt the same can be said for the Agni demo, as much as I'd love to see visuals like that being feasible in the near future.

    They haven't explicitly stated the specs of what they're running on, but they did say in one of the videos [paraphrasing]"Agnis is running on comparable specs to similar competing demos". I'm taking that as either Samaritan or the new UE4 demo (which has been revealed to be running on a 680 for a while). UE4 is doing all of its lighting in real-time, but I don't believe that's the case for LE (in fact if I remember correctly I've read papers by people working on the engine describing baking ray bundles or something).

    IMO I'd rather have proper radiosity that is baked than to have subpar radiosity for everything in real-time; the reason being the differences seen in these two demos. That being said Agnis definitely does some things dynamically, like the specular reflections and dynamic light instances (like in the cage with the stark direct lighting or the casting with the flashes of light from effects). More information would be nice; this is all just speculation.
  • mLichy
    While baking lightmaps can look very nice, they also eat up a ton of production time imo, as well as memory and verts, from UVs. Maybe a hybrid would be nice, like some said. Or if they have some good SSAO, that might help enough in some situations.
  • Visceral
    LE engine isnt for licensing anyways? So why care? Shouldnt we be troll arguing over CE3 vs UE4?
  • ZacD
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    ZacD polycounter
    The UDK Samaritan Demo was more similar to the luminous demo, the unreal 4 was demoed from a more tech perspective. The 2 videos are like comparing apples to oranges. We don't know how much of the luminous was "baked" or animated, or how much was real time and simulated. Unreal's demo didn't even attempt to showcase hair or cloth or characters.
  • Robbyh
    more apple and oranges comments please ! i cracked up on seeing it reocur.

    UE4 looks a bit more western , Lumin is ofc asia-ish. all based on the artwork.

    The thing is we never got to know how many polys´and so on they were running att realtime. Kinda easy to say "hey this interactive movie is better than this".
  • odium
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    odium polycounter lvl 11
    They can use the Gold Source engine for all I care... I just want a new Unreal on Na Pali, and a new FF in the old PSX style :(
  • ikken
    Pancakes wrote: »
    I think the skeptical comments are reinforcing just how amazing Luminous is. People aren't even willing to believe their own eyes!
    well yeah, except assets for luminous demo were prepared by square's cinematic division.
    there's no word about same production quality landing for the final game. there's not a single word on any actual games using it right now.
    everyone praised artistic direction they used this time (even though I don't like square catching up on mud-bronws in 2012), but how much of this awesomeness is gonna get in the final product?
    it's way to early to praise or judge it already.
    ue4 gets more credibility, since developers are more open about actual hardware specs and their suggestions to hardware manufacturers in case of consoles.
    odium wrote: »
    They can use the Gold Source engine for all I care... I just want a new Unreal on Na Pali, and a new FF in the old PSX style :(
    ff VI-2 please thanks
  • Numerator
    LE
    [ame=" Philosophy Final Fantasy Real Time Tech Demo E3 2012 [HD] - YouTube[/ame]

    UE3
    [ame=" Engine 3: Official Samaritan Demo - YouTube[/ame]

    UE4
    [ame=" Engine 4 - GT.TV Elemental Demo Showcase - YouTube[/ame]

    FB2
    [ame=" 3 Frostbite 2 Highlights Trailer - YouTube[/ame]
  • melviso
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    melviso polycounter lvl 10
    Watched this demo video for Unreal engine 4.Sweet!!!I think the luminous engine won't be made available to the public,probably to game studios.I also wanted to ask have Unreal engine 4 editor pc requirements been released yet?

    [ame=" Engine 4 - Exclusive Development Video - YouTube[/ame]
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 16
    Art Direction & the assets are important too.

    UE3 - Star Wars 1313, people flipped out and swore this was UE4, from what I've heard it's using the Samaritan tech so UE3 or... UE3.5?
    [ame=" Wars 1313 - All 3 Extended Gameplay Trailers - E3 - YouTube[/ame]

    UE4 - 3D Mark, kind of gaudy "tech demo" art, fanboys are starting to show this video as an example of the "inferiority" of UE4
    [ame=" DirectX 11 Tech Demo (1080p HD) - YouTube[/ame]
  • WarrenM
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    WarrenM Polycount Sponsor
    It's like when people used to talk about how the Serious Sam engine was the only engine that could do bright colors. That was always good for a chuckle.
  • Ace-Angel
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    Ace-Angel polycounter lvl 7
    Art Direction & the assets are important too.

    UE3 - Star Wars 1313, people flipped out and swore this was UE4, from what I've heard it's using the Samaritan tech so UE3 or... UE3.5?
    Star Wars 1313 - All 3 Extended Gameplay Trailers - E3 - YouTube

    UE4 - 3D Mark, kind of gaudy "tech demo" art, fanboys are starting to show this video as an example of the "inferiority" of UE4
    3DMark DirectX 11 Tech Demo (1080p HD) - YouTube
    A large portion of the people are complaining about Mark actually being sub-par in the art direction with the animations and models at large.

    The thing is, while UE4 didn't blow you away in term of eye-candy, the Dev Doc is where it's at, seeing RT Emissive lights interact with the Environment is the type of stuff that separates wannabe's from actual people who know their stuff.

    Mark has neither to be honest.

    Anyhow, don't waste your time reading what people say, I'm more interested what people in the industry have to say instead of some snot 14 year old kid who thinks just because they took a black and white image of a chair, they're qualified connoisseur of art.
  • melviso
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    melviso polycounter lvl 10
    Art Direction & the assets are important too.

    UE3 - Star Wars 1313, people flipped out and swore this was UE4, from what I've heard it's using the Samaritan tech so UE3 or... UE3.5?
    Star Wars 1313 - All 3 Extended Gameplay Trailers - E3 - YouTube

    UE4 - 3D Mark, kind of gaudy "tech demo" art, fanboys are starting to show this video as an example of the "inferiority" of UE4
    3DMark DirectX 11 Tech Demo (1080p HD) - YouTube

    Star wars is for the ps3,right?and from what I read,its the UNREAL 3 engine,not unreal 4.I must say the graphics is superb for a ps3 game and that plastic look that always plagues unreal game graphics is completely absent here.

    Justin,do u mean:''UE4 - 3D Mark, kind of gaudy "tech demo" art, fanboys are starting to show this video as an example of the "inferiority" of ''UE4'' or 3dmark 2012"?I am thinking 3dmark is not a game engine so why is it an example of the inferiority of UE4?I don't get it.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 16
    as I said in my post: Star Wars 1313 is using the samaritan build of UE3. AFAIK it's running on a high end PC - since MS & Sony didn't announce their next gen systems everyone was sort of vague on what consoles their games would be released on.

    my mistake about the 3Dmark one, a site reported that it was using UE4 (or I made the mistake some of you guys made with my post, I skimmed over the article without actually reading it :P)
  • Quack!
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    Quack! polycounter lvl 13
    If the art is bad, the engine doesn't matter.

    The UE4's art was fairly bad. Environments were good, but the character was fairly rushed / ugly.

    Agni on the other hand had obviously more attention put into the art.

    It doesn't matter which is more powerful. I bet a sexy team of artists/techs can make the UE3 almost on par with Agni using art tricks alone.
  • Anchang-Style
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    Anchang-Style polycounter lvl 7
    But then again people who were praising the SE Engine (i cant properly write Lumnious sorry^^) as the winner of this unofficial Engine stand off around the recent E3 are missing 2 points.
    1. Yeah the art was quite cool, then again if SE did not crash and burn in one department then it's their art direction. BUT the will probably not be used outside of SE japan. So people who will actually use this engine will be very limited (as with the crystal engine). Not even SE subcompanies like Eidos and so on probably wont put hands on this piece of techology.
    2. UE4 was closer to what can be expected as performance from the coming years. Lumnious looked great but according to some comments of SE personal ran on Tri SLI 680...not really what you can expect out of the next generation. Sure they will find a way to bring something reasonable to the systems but i question it will be THIS level of quality.
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