Character Artist using Cintiq.
polycounter lvl 18
I am just curious. How many of you character monkeys use Cintiq's regularly these days? Quite a few fellas here have them and since I've always been curious I figure I'd ask.
Anyone used it and ended up going back to a regular Intuos.
Reason I am asking is over the years I've found I prefer larger format tablets so perhaps a jump onto 1:1 cintiq would be a positive upgrade ?
Anyone else in the same boat ?
Anyone used it and ended up going back to a regular Intuos.
Reason I am asking is over the years I've found I prefer larger format tablets so perhaps a jump onto 1:1 cintiq would be a positive upgrade ?
Anyone else in the same boat ?
Replies
I tried using a Cintiq but couldn't get over the visual disconnect between the pen tip and the photoshop cursor.
Trying one out made me very happy I didn't buy one. Maybe one day, but not right now.
p.s. Cintiqs won't make you a better artist.
My question was more regarding usability and personal preference since it seems like quite a jump from a tablet to working directly on the display.
I personally had trouble working on the Cintiq I once had. Used to get a pretty bad neck strain from looking down at the screen for too long. That is not the case with everyone, obviously. Just something to keep in mind.
Though, I only used it about half a dozen times at school, maybe 15 or 30 minutes at a time. So not really used it for an extended time.
But what I did experience was that (because of using a mouse, and my own tablet for a while) I was already used to the disconnect between screen and tablet, and as such the Cintiq didn't "fix" any problem.
Neither is keeping your arm up, though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#Gorilla_arm
The one i have at work is laid down at an angle, no legs just the arm mount, so its almost like its part of the desk, I guess just like a drawing table. And then i've got the keyboard tucked in to the left, halfway underneath the cintiq and a second screen right infront of the keyboard for reference and email and other important stuff.
pros: Its awesome for drawing and painting, feels much more natural and rewarding and you just want to do it. The people who talk about lag or disconnect are people who haven't used one for more than 30 minutes. I brought in my tablet because I wasn't sure I was going to like it and after about a week I took the tablet home because it was gathering dust.
cons: Its a big bulky thing, so getting it situated in a place thats comfortable is a challenge.
Its also a larger surface, which is good in a way, but bad because you are actually physically moving your hand alot more. Not only can that be more tiring, but modeling can also be a bit slower because you can't move around quite as quickly. Thats not a huge deal, but it is something to be aware of.
Another thing you should think about is getting some kind of protecting thingy for the screen, mine has gotten so scratched in the middle that the image is actually slightly blurry.
Those are just some things to keep in mind. Overall I'd say the pros outweigh the cons, but these things sure are expensive.
I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with it. I have been using them for about 3 years now, both at home (12incher, sold back, then 21UX gray) and at work (currently on a 21UX black).
The pros have all been listed above - It simply is one step closer to natural media, and certainly makes some tasks up to 2x faster. I find that the biggest positive impact of it is for digital sculpting. It really takes Mudbox to another level, it feels fantastic. I've been using it for 2D, 3D sculpting, and 3D modeling, and overall all these tasks become faster with it.
However it takes quite a bit of tinkering to get it to work intuitively - be prepared to have to rebuild some of your brushes to accommodate the Cintiq "feel". I haven't done much oldschool material texturing lately, but I do know that I have a hard time "rendering" on the Cintiq, as opposed to a regular tablet. On one hand it is more gestural and intuitive, therefore great for loose concept work ; but on the other hand, you miss the "pixel perfect" accuracy and creamy pressure sensitivity that regular tablets have. The surface is also smoother than of Intuoses - akin to painting on a piece of acrylic or glass, as opposed to the paper/gesso-like surface that regular tablets have. Good for painting big strokes, but sometimes odd for lineart work. So again - make sure to try one out for a few days to see for yourself.
It's also good to mention that you will likely hate it for about week before getting used to it. Everyone I know went through that phase that Vi mentionned. (BTW, I still don't get how you managed to scratch yours so badly, that's crazy!)
To me their biggest inherent downside is that they tend to make one work quite "close to the image". Artistically it can be a problem, because it can make you loose awareness of the broader rhythms of an image. Cloning the PS document to another zoomed out window can help. Obviously this is not a big deal for UV texturing., but it can be annoying for illustration work.
Now I think there is another important issue to consider : health and RSI. Regular tablets tend to make one use a strong wrist "grip" for accuracy, and that's pretty bad; Cintiqs prevent that ... at the cost of eyestrain. It might not be obvious at first, but staring at screen for hours can only be a bad thing, especially a few inches away. This story has been passed around recently, some serious food for thought :
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/my-left-eye.html
Now of course there is no way to know if this could happen to other users. But still, that's something to think about. Some helpful tips in the comments too.
Some Cintiq users complain about the heat it emits, especially in an office with computers. Indeed, it can be annoying. I have a vertical tower fan next to it when needed to prevent the issue. The cursor "depth" alignment can be a problem to some users too. I find that this really depends on the kind of work being done.
Lag is extremely minimal, to a point that it really has no impact on the work whatsoever. I personally don't notice it anymore, but I know it is there, since I recently showed the Cintiq and Intuos tablet to a non-CG artist friend who had an interest in trying them out - she instantly noticed a cursor lag, both on the Cintiq and an Intuos. Interesting
(On a side note, I am personally waiting patiently for RGB e-ink displays to become mass produced - A Cintiq with that kind of screen would be waaaay more relaxing.)
I toned the brightness of mine way down (not ideal obviously, but still, something to try out), and I sometimes wear Gunnar glasses (just did today ! They look super cool too hehe).
But overall there's not much we can do, right ...
A former colleague of mine used single-use gloves made of cloth to prevent getting burned by the cintiq. I think he cut off the tips of the glove fingers for better comfort. They got dirty pretty quickly though.
I use an intuos for work and almost for all, 3dsmax, modo, photoshop, Zbrush, Autocad, solidworks, etc.
Using a cintiq with apps that requires too many shortcut keys like modo or max, it's not very ergonomic and at the end you will have problems (due to the keyboard position). I would use the cintiq just for Zbrush or painting, and always using the buttons on the cintiq and nothing more.
This one does not need any ergonomic add-on, and it's 1920x1200.
And, for the heat, and the issues with finger prints, you can buy especial gloves designed for cintiqs.
My recommendation is DO NOT buy this thing unless if you need it! Try one first because they have imput lag, and it's not like to be drawing on a paper.
http://cgterminal.com/2011/09/13/wacom-cintiq-24hd-hands-on/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwFZjdvf-R8&feature=youtu.be
never going back
I don't agree with you in the slightest, with this. But only because everyone has the same problem when they try a tablet for the very first time. There is a disconnect. People are use to looking at the paper, not the screen.
I feel its like any new tool. It's going to take a bit to master, so a simple 5 minute test wont help (though, admittedly, I dont know how long you tested it, Jesse). If you can borrow one for a week or something, that would be better, Im sure and give you a better test.
But as always, it comes down to personal preference.
actually,
I'm so jeaaaaalous!:poly136:
Well another issue I had with it was after using a tablet for the better part of 12 years, I no longer like having my hand obscure part of the image as I draw. When I use a tablet, I can see the full image all at once without having to move my hands.
I haven't drawn on paper in about 11 years btw. (with the occasional sketch here and there) I've also grown accustom to looking straight on at my drawings, not having my head tilted to see around my hand. Just feels like my perspective is off.
I did play with one for about an hour. Not as long as many suggest I should try it, and maybe one day I will give it another shot.
I really like the idea of a cintiq, I just don't think the tech is there yet for me personally.
As I said before, the physical distance between the pen tip and the cursor on screen freaks me out. It makes me feel not as accurate as with a tablet. I tried to mess with the settings to find something I was comfortable with, but I had no success.
Another factor about me not liking it was that I was trying to sketch in Photoshop. I hate sketching in Photoshop in general. I'm a Painter guy when it comes to sketching. I'll have to try Painter with one next time I get the opportunity.
A bunch of little nit picks, but if I'm going to shell out as much money as they cost, I figure I have to have no doubts about it.
Currently, I have no problems creating my art with my setup and I'm ok with that.
The one big thing that I want a cintiq for is the ability to physically rotate my canvas because the rotate canvas tool in Photoshop sucks, especially compared to Painter's.
Need transparent arms! :poly124:
I've been on the fence of buying a cintiq for years (cost, space, activity level), think I'm finally ready to hop off!
Yup, makes sense. Its really personal preference. In the other tablet thread going on right now, someone said they still use a mouse and keyboard because it works for that. Whatever works for you is what it comes down to. I've never actually used a cintiq, but I would love to try one. I don't do enough art that would benefit from one to justify getting one though. Mostly animation, which even a tablet is useless for. ButIi still have a tablet for the other stuff, even if it's few and far between.
@Fuse, it really comes down to whether or not YOU think it could improve your workflow / ability. And whether or not YOU can afford it. You either think its worth it or you dont. From what I've heard, everyone that owns one swears by them. Ask to use one at work on a lunch hour? See if you like it, or could possible like it if used more?
Jesus Kot_Leopold where are you from, what's with the Cintiq hate ?
For illustration, Cintiq beats Intuos hands down, obviously.
Having your hand in the way is my main concern, I remember borrowing my friends tablet PC not too long ago and it took me a while to get used to having my hand in the way but was very intuitive after a while. Photoshop I thought was awesome but sculpting took some time for me to get used to. Im sure a cintiq is miles better than a cruddy HP tablet PC though haha.
Like i said many times on polycount. I use my 21 cintiq everyday, I paint and sculpt with it. Its cake, i do agree that the first edition cintiq would get scratches on it after a while. ( but thats like 4 years after) but it doesnt seem to be the case with the latest edition.. Also, I dont agree about the lag, There is none, i agree that it get hot and it burn ur eyes.
About the hand getting in the way, well, ill be honest, Learn to hold ur pencil. its like drawing on paper, hold ur pen loose and sitting comfortably in your hand, to see the larger piece.
I dont use my cintiq flat or fully straight, but middle ground. my forearm and wrist are fine after all theses year using it.
And you cant compare a cintiq to a tablet pc.
if you have any question feel free. Oh And I do not use the pen to model with it. Only paint and sculpt.
Ben
Bill, thanks for the info. I model and sculpt and paint and texture on my tablet, so I am curious how awkward modeling would be on a cintiq.
Pior, thanks for article. Really scary but thought provoking experiences. Thankfully due for my regular tea breaks I get enough time away from the screen.
Vitally, kudos on the arm advice.
I decided that I'll wait it out and maybe demo a fellow artist's cintiq before asking the studio to fork over a couple of grand without being sure.
See that's another point of apprehension for me. While a lot of awesome guys here use cintiqs there are still a few kickass artists here who chose not to. Seemingly any top level guy would eventually upgrade but it doesn't seem to be the case.
it's all subjective.
Try it and decide for yourself.
NEVER do something because everyone else is doing it. That's just general advice for life though. Don't choose a tool just because 'rockstar' artists use them. Choose it because you like it.
They're all tools for the artist to use. It's almost like different mediums.
Actually I'd suggest copying masters whenever you are new to something, there's a reason behind their methods.
I think a better word is 'understanding' masters.
After all, what's the use of copying a recipe (for example) if you don't understand WHY the ingredients go together.
Study the method, understand their insanity, incorporate their methods into your own.
The masters became masters by following their own path, not walking the path of other's.
And yes, my first generation cintiq started to develop small scratches in the most heavy traffic areas like Ben and Vitaly mentioned, at about four and a half year mark. It's not very noticeable but it is there if you take a look. I haven't had the newer cintiq long enough to compare wear and tear but I tend to work with the felt-tip stylus or the spring-tip stylus which I would imagine put less strain on the surface. That could all be speculation, however.