Employee Unloyal Competition?
polycounter lvl 13
Ok so i've seen alot of talk here about companies and people wanting to go indie.
Like most of people i too think about it. But I have a few questions.
I understand there's something like unloyal competition in the labor laws, where it says that you can't compete directly with the company you are working for, even though it isn;t specified in your contract.
So:
Can you develop your own game in your spare time, while working for a company
(the game targets the same market etc) ?
Can you develop a game that was presented to your company (game design, concepts) but was not accepted, and you continue to work on it in the spare time?
Here you can include if the concepting was done in the company's work hours or not.
Do the company have to register ideas? Or they can sue you no matter what.
I mean you came up with an idea, you work on it within the company time but after a month was ditched.Can you still develop it?
Anyway i've searched google but still interested on how you guys think it applies in the gaming industry.
Like most of people i too think about it. But I have a few questions.
I understand there's something like unloyal competition in the labor laws, where it says that you can't compete directly with the company you are working for, even though it isn;t specified in your contract.
So:
Can you develop your own game in your spare time, while working for a company
(the game targets the same market etc) ?
Can you develop a game that was presented to your company (game design, concepts) but was not accepted, and you continue to work on it in the spare time?
Here you can include if the concepting was done in the company's work hours or not.
Do the company have to register ideas? Or they can sue you no matter what.
I mean you came up with an idea, you work on it within the company time but after a month was ditched.Can you still develop it?
Anyway i've searched google but still interested on how you guys think it applies in the gaming industry.
Replies
Unless they are greenhorns without a legal department, any idea presented to your employer is now theirs weather they use it or not. Luckily, ideas are easy to come up with and basically worthless - this is why self proclaimed idea guys get soundly mocked around here.
It kind of sucks because it makes you feel like your stuck to the man. Since at least for us we can't afford to take the risk and hope our games succeed.
Yeah, the best thing you can do is be open with the company and ASK what their stance is. Most likely, you signed something in your employment contract that specifically prohibits you from doing this, but depending on where you work and how nice the people you work for are, it may not be a problem.
Often times the non-compete clauses are to prevent you from say, working on Call of Duty via contract while you're working on Medal of Honor onsite, directly competing projects.
I would say that thats just too much and I would personally avoid those companies like the plague. Nothing I do in my private life or home, should be dictated by workplace.
I agree that is not cool to own everything you do but I disagree completely about avoiding them like the plague. Are you going to avoid EA and all EA studios because of that? I don't think so. Specially if it's a cool project and they have good hours and all that jazz.
Just a random company example.
Ya needless to say I didn't bother signing that contract.
B
If you're outside the US and find something like this in your contract, check with a lawyer because local law may override such a clause.
Seems like there's some sort of "standard-US-games-industry-contract" floating around which just gets copied from company to company, no matter where they're located. Chance is people will be intimidated enough not to go against it, even if there's no legal ground (unless you directly compete or use stuff from work in your project)
However it's the definition of 'competition' that is the grey area. On one hand, you could interpret it to mean any form of entertainment media, but on the other, you could just as easily argue that working on a small scale iPhone game in your spare time is hardly detrimental to the AAA console shooter you're also working on. It'll probably come down largely to company stance more than the law, after all, they're the ones paying your salary.
having said that, I'm referring to projects worked on 100% in your own time. If you worked on it inside company hours with company tools, and imo if you pitched it to them- I kinda think you lost claim to it somewhat and it's harder to defend your stance. Pitching it to them in particular lets them say- well, we weren't ready to work on it then, but we had it on the backburner. Anything which is in the company 'idea bank' becomes off limits- in my opinion
edit: Meisse covered it though- they may have the IP but it's easy to switch up a few things and make a 'clone' of your own idea.
For example if someone had the idea of Doodle Jump (which is pretty basic) and was rejected by the company (because is too basic:D) and after that the dude develops it in his own time, makes 4 millions dollars and the company then decides well we deserve something too. Of course if your game is shit nobody notice it.
Seems the company can do that, if they want. Of course they have better lawyers etc.
edit: ...and of course there are alot of people that think they have the next million dollar idea and better should get working, but it''s just something that could happen.
I'd personally prefer if it was the other way around. I'd like to recieve royalties from everything I make irrespective of whether I am working at the company I made it for. But I can see the financial incentive from the studios point of view.
Why aren't you putting that same work into your day job? What if you're losing sleep because you're working late into the night at your personal work?
And what if you come up with a million dollar idea? like the fellows who invented bratz while working at Mattel?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26410627/ns/business-us_business/t/mattel-awarded-million-bratz-lawsuit/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/21/mattel-loses-lawsuit-with-mga-bratz_n_852223.html
From a company's perspective, why does it matter if an employee is staying up late working on a personal project or having sex? Every employee spends their personal time how they see fit -- working out, watching TV, browsing the internet, playing video games. Many on Polycount work on personal art when they get home; some work on indie games or short films or whatever interests them. If any of those activities cut into sleep time and end up affecting work performance, it will show in missed deadlines or lower quality work and can be addressed in performance reviews with supervisors.
Your first question strikes me as a bit silly; why does anyone on this forum who is professionally employed create art in their spare time? To improve their own abilities, to satisfy the itch for autonomy and creativity without production limitations or deadlines, to experiment with new techniques -- the list goes on and on. There are many reasons why people do things with their own time that they simply could not do in their day job. It has very ilttle to do with slacking off or not giving full energy during work hours, and everything to do with most employment opportunities not offering full satisfaction (nor should most jobs, I think).
I agree with you, since I have done personal work at home for exactly this reason, but a company would argue that they should be offering full satisfaction at work. And if you're not satisfied then you should speak up about it. Of course I realise this isn't what usually happens but that doesn't mean it's not reasonable for a company to take this position.
I was responding to what jipe said:
Why wouldn't a good workplace offer you options to improve? options for greater autonomy? and the option to experiment with new techniques?
certainly not satisfaction in the broad sense but definitely job satisfaction
Just sayin'
As for me, I went from full-time employment to contract work about two years ago and since I started with a new client company mid last year I've had it in my contract that I'm doing work non-exclusively and I own anything I make not directly related to my contract with them (even if I do it on-site, not that I would). I wouldn't expect this working for a bigger company, but I'm really happy to have it now