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QA as a stepping stone?

polycounter lvl 10
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Wonkey polycounter lvl 10
In December, I will be moving from North Carolina to San Franisco, due to my wife's job. I, personally, don't think I am skilled enough to get an Environmental Artist position... yet. You could look at the edit <Art> Dump I call a wip Portfolio and tell me I am wrong, but I doubt you will.

I am hoping to avoid working in Food Service, while continuing working on my portfolio and mod projects. Currently, I am doing a closed beta for a iOS beta, and it is actually kind of fun trying to break the game and point out flaws, for hours and hours on end... Which, finally, leads me to my questions:

How tough is it to get into a QA position?

When should I apply for a posistion, since I won't be in the the city until December

Do I need to do a resume geared less towards Modeling and more towards... what?

Is it a good idea to try to do this?

Breasts in return for help!

1D5SZ.jpg

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  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • marks
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    marks greentooth
    Certain companies, like Sega, have no upward mobility for QA and separate them like deformed monkeys from the rest of the company.

    Which studio? Our inhouse QA are pretty integrated, in fact our Associate Producer came up through our inhouse QA ...
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • marks
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    marks greentooth
    Thats a fair call, I think there is a very big difference between "corporate" QA, and the embedded in-house kind of QA. We have a couple of embedded QA on our team which pretty much a part of the team - they mingle with us more than QA from the other team.
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • ElysiumGX
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    ElysiumGX polycounter lvl 18
    Quality Assurance in the video game industry is not a well-defined department. It's different depending on where you are. There is no preparation for it, and often the staff have no idea what they're doing unless detailed instruction is provided. Likely these folks came from a local Gamestop, or needed something to fund their MMO addiction. Terminology will differ greatly from one studio to another. Often I find myself explaining the difference between Smoke Testing and Regression Testing, as they are often reversed. Recently I had to remind someone that there is no such thing as Structured Ad-hoc Testing. It doesn't matter. In the end, the point is that work gets completed. It's more often quantity over quality...ironically.

    I have been working in QA since 2006. I had heard that working in QA was the first step towards a rewarding career in the game industry. In the years that I've worked for a number of studios, I've had some of the best, most memorable, experiences as well as the worst that I do not care to look back on. I've led one of the best team of professionals, but also worked along with those whose jobs could easily be done by arm-less monkeys. I've gone from a faceless minion in a dark, cold, windowless cave, to an office with a view as a Lead, and back again. It matters little what you know as long as QA is still in your title.

    How tough is it to get into a QA position?
    Again, depends. For the larger studios going through expansion, all you need is opposable thumbs and two brain cells to rub together. You'll most likely start as a Contract worker, and remain that way as long as legally possible. That way they can boot your ass at any time for any reason. You're expendable and always the first to be laid-off. This goes to show how valuable any single QA person is viewed within the industry. In my experience, most large studios will hire anyone for QA, and it's often about who you know. In more than one occassion I've work with folks who were barely computer literate, but at one occassion in their life, played World or Warcraft. It's sad to think that's a resume piece. You'll likely work in a separate building, floor, or country from the developers. You'll be last in line to receive any perks, like a T-shirt of the product you spent years on working 10-14 hour days. But you may be provided all the soda and candy bars you want.
    As mentioned, for smaller (smarter) studios, you'll work along side the developers and get the chance to network, and build friendships. You'll have more of an opportunity for advancement as the team grows. But you're still at the mercy of an unexpected layoff, leaving you back in the job market to start over again.

    The one aspect of QA that will benefit you as an artist looking to land in the industry, as that it will give you the viewpoint to observe how the development process works. You'll possibly learn Agile, Tracking Software, SVN, etc., maybe even some design tools.

    In your resume, highlight your knowledge of game genres, recent titles, and design aspects that appeal to you. More importantly, demonstrate your writing skill, and knowledge of office software. Overall, be a nice person that most people can get along with. You'll be stuck with a team that you spend more time with than your own friends and family. It's best not to be an asshole.

    Don't gear your resume towards any other departments. QA managers are looking for one thing in particular, and it's not artistic talent. Keep that within a separate resume to send out while QA teaches you the ropes. In the meantime, network. Make friends that will not only inspire you, but could one day assist you in landing the position you aim for.

    Good luck.
  • Wonkey
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    Wonkey polycounter lvl 10
    Thank you guys, you gave me a lot to think about.
  • gsokol
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    I tried that once. Got a temp QA job straight out of college (at a developer studio, not corporate or offsite)...managed to get hired on full-time...made friends (acquaintances at least) in the art department. They were cool, critiqued my 'folio and whatnot, then got laid off...they weren't hiring for artists at all in the 1.5-2 years I was there.

    So..nope, didn't work for me at least. But I did end up getting an art job in an unrelated field, in part due to my experience there.
    When should I apply for a posistion, since I won't be in the the city until December
    Start now. Any Industry related job opportunity I've been presented with took a few months from the time I applied to landing(or not) the job. Of course, its highly unlikely you can expect any help with relocation, so they will probably expect you to show up for an in-person interview on your own dime.
    How tough is it to get into a QA position?
    Not tough at all, as long as you are personable. Many of the people I worked with were straight out of high school.
    Do I need to do a resume geared less towards Modeling and more towards... what?
    I kinda had a hybrid...I mentioned skills I learned in school and whatnot, but it was pretty generic otherwise. Its not like I really had much to put on there at the time anyways.
    Is it a good idea to try to do this?
    Up to you, but the way I see it: Its a jerb. You'll get paid, and have the chance to possibly network with people. If it doesn't pan out for you, find another job. At least youll have something to start, and who knows, it might work out for you.

    Thanks for the breasts.
    You could look at the Dump I call a wip Portfolio
    Don't ever talk about your work like that...even if you feel that way, lack of confidence in yourself will make other people doubt you more. :)

    Good luck with the hunt! San Fran would be a cool place to live.
  • Frump
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    Frump polycounter lvl 12
    My advice is that if you should not do it unless your only other option is turning tricks. It is just a paycheque like any crappy job.

    I've been stuck in QA for longer than I care to admit and it just drains me mentally and physically and gets in the way of everything I love.

    Where I work there's been little to no chance to move into a development role, although myself and some other exceptional peers have been forcing a trend of it. I think it is like this in a lot of cases. Companies want you there to find bugs, they don't care if you're an artist. The people you work with might, and it might be good times, but there will always be some kind of management and bureaucracy in place to keep you down.

    Sorry for the pessimism. Good Luck with whichever path you choose to follow.
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    I think you are skilled enough, don't sell yourself short! :)
  • chrisradsby
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    chrisradsby polycounter lvl 14
    It really depends on which company you work for, bigger companies like EA usually have big QA buildings for just testing. When I worked at Evolution Studios we had 2-4 QA guys sitting in the same room as the artists, helping out finding bugs, we could go talk to them directly etc etc.

    It was really nice, but I would be very careful of going that route as well, you might get stuck and it's a lot of work. I'd say you're good enough, just keep working and try to apply to different studios in the area you're moving to.
  • Wonkey
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    Wonkey polycounter lvl 10
    Ok, A lot of good things to hear in this thread, thank you!

    My plan:
    1 Do a resume stressing schooling and love of games and apply for the QA posistions around San Fransico.
    2 Whip my art dump into shape, Do a bunch of break downs and post in the PnP
    3 Maintain my 4.0 through this last semester of school.
    4 Finish my environment in PnP and get it into my portfolio.
    5 Send Portfolio out to studios around San Fransico.
    6 Continue working on my Group project and hope they get the engine running at some point...

    In a QA position, hope I don't get a job that works me 18 hours a day so I can continue improving.

    The reason I am hoping for a QA position rather than just getting a job at McD's, is that I want to immerse myself into games, rather than just when I boot up Max. Being able to talk to actual artist face to face a would be tremendous help, but I don't expect it or feel entitled to it, just because I would be a tester. Does that make sense?

    Thank you guys so much for taking time to post!
  • greevar
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    greevar polycounter lvl 6
    Wonkey wrote: »
    Ok, A lot of good things to hear in this thread, thank you!

    My plan:
    1 Do a resume stressing schooling and love of games and apply for the QA posistions around San Fransico.
    2 Whip my art dump into shape, Do a bunch of break downs and post in the PnP
    3 Maintain my 4.0 through this last semester of school.
    4 Finish my environment in PnP and get it into my portfolio.
    5 Send Portfolio out to studios around San Fransico.
    6 Continue working on my Group project and hope they get the engine running at some point...

    In a QA position, hope I don't get a job that works me 18 hours a day so I can continue improving.

    The reason I am hoping for a QA position rather than just getting a job at McD's, is that I want to immerse myself into games, rather than just when I boot up Max. Being able to talk to actual artist face to face a would be tremendous help, but I don't expect it or feel entitled to it, just because I would be a tester. Does that make sense?

    Thank you guys so much for taking time to post!

    You want to immerse yourself in game development? Get Unity or UDK, join an independent team, and make games.
  • jmt
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    jmt
    Moving from QA into an art position is like going from anywhere into an art position. Though not necessarily in this order, it mainly comes down to skill, connections and luck. Don't expect QA management to go out of their way to help your career as an artist. If people like you, they will help you when they can, but their first priority will always be QA. I've been stuck doing certain jobs for far too long because I was considered too useful to move up.

    If possible, get into art QA in a developer support role, though there aren't many of these positions out there. It took me many months of working part time and then many more months of full time before I had even met an artist. Now I work with the Art Director, lead modelers, technical artists etc. every day and have a chance to do a bit of art as well.

    The most important thing is that you keep doing art. This cannot be stressed enough. Many people (including me) have lost motivation at some point. It's tough, but that's what we signed up for when deciding to go into a very competitive field.

    @Greevar Living without a job is not possible for some people.
  • Wonkey
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    Wonkey polycounter lvl 10
    greevar wrote: »
    You want to immerse yourself in game development? Get Unity or UDK, join an independent team, and make games.


    What is this UDK thing of which you speak?

    Is it like this thing? (made by me)

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu_6Q3fwhOI[/ame]

    Or this?

    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86920

    Of this unity project, programming and models by me.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4593834/Tube%20Runner/WebPlayer/WebPlayer/WebPlayer.html

    Or the group project for Dreambuild I have been working on?

    Sorry Greevar, but come on....
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • Wonkey
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    Wonkey polycounter lvl 10
    You're right, TeriyakiStyle.

    I appologize greezar
  • Isaiah Sherman
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    Isaiah Sherman polycounter lvl 14
    I've always had a feeling that trying to get in to QA is not a great idea if you want to branch to another position in the studio.

    You'll hear it on a rare occasion, but most of the time you'll end up just building a resume of QA experience... which leads to more QA work. Once that happens, you start to realize, now that I have 3 years of QA experience, do I really want to gamble in trying to apply for positions outside of what I already have several years of experience with?

    I have a friend that is a pretty good artist, but started doing QA. Now she has almost 2 years of QA experience and a decent portfolio, but has been funneled into the spiral of QA now that she has experience as QA on 4 different major AAA titles.

    Just practice, practice, practice. You can always apply for positions to other studios as well.
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • tehrobster2
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    tehrobster2 polycounter lvl 11
    Dude you say that you are moving in December ?? Do you have kids ?? it sounds like you feel your skills are not cutting it, and if you feel that way watch tutorials, study other peoples work, keep working and putting out new portfolio pieces until you feel like you are at that level . You have two and have months to put out something awesome, that could land you a job. And honestly, I wouldnt worry about the 4.0 for school, I mean if you want to do it for you thats cool, but a studio is not going to care that you had 4.0 in school.
  • Alberto Rdrgz
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    Alberto Rdrgz polycounter lvl 9
    Yea... i would have to say no on this one. Just polish up your portfolio and find a junior position.
  • Wonkey
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    Wonkey polycounter lvl 10
    Do you have kids ?? QUOTE]

    Luckily, I have no kids. And even more luckily, we are moving across country for not MY opportunities, but my wife got a job there. I have made her understand, that it doesn't matter where we go, we will be moving, but she took the job there to help me. I know that really no one cares if I maintained my 4.0, but last semester and I still have it...

    I don't know, I think my real question is, should I get a job at burger king while working on my portfolio, or should I try to get a QA job while working on my portfolio. My wife put me through school, and I HAVE to start bringing in a bit of money, or my ass is going to be grass; so I can't just work on my portfolio.
  • Noia
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    Noia polycounter lvl 15
    My QA experience was positive, but it was within a fairly small company. It didn't necessarily help me get an art job as much as the freelance work I was doing at the same time did, but it supplemented my income and I made friends.

    So do freelance art, QA, and inquire (though not too aggressively) to companies for internships and junior positions. These positions are often not advertised, and even though they have nothing for you now, they may down the road. If your clients or arthouse let you post the work you've done for them on your portfolio, great. Keep working on the portfolio.

    It doesn't work the same but everyone, but for me, when I had more things going on as opposed to being unemployed and just doing portfolio stuff, it was easier for me to set deadlines and focus. And I was generally happier too.
  • Mcejn
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    Mcejn polycounter lvl 12
    Tough call. The time spent being overworked doing something you'd probably hate could be spent beefing up your portfolio and working towards getting a real position as an artist. At the same time, you need to eat.

    Good luck man, there's already tons of advice from people who've been through the ropes of QA here. Just keep in mind that working your way up is a lot harder now than it was a decade or two ago. The market is over saturated and it's tougher to stand out, even if you're going to be an internal applicant.
  • chrisradsby
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    chrisradsby polycounter lvl 14
    For whatever reason, the only place I ever see Jr positions advertised is in the UK.

    Sweden tend to have internships and entry-level positions :) :thumbup: Great place to live, a bit on the expensive side but we tend to make up for with other things, plenty of polycounters living in Sweden:)
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