Depression for artists
polycounter lvl 14
I want to hear if anyone gets into this kind of slump. Whether it feels like your own skill level is not moving anywhere or your own work is not meeting the vision or standard you set out for.
I ask because I don't know how to deal with it right now. It's not like the artwork I do is in the field of fine arts where deadlines and financial backing is not like the animation or game industry. I am trying to prepare myself for the environment from what I am told about the game industry. How does someone manage? Is it so easy to just stop thinking about it and just do the work regardless how under confident you are?
I have been in school for awhile and I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. I don't see myself getting to the level I want to be. It's easy to say, I will not be satisfied and if I ever do become satisfied it just means I stop growing...but that feels like it does not help.
I'd just like to hear people's experience just to get another perspective.
Edit01:
not looking for sympathy, just trying to understand how others found their way of keeping their energy up.
Edit02:
If anyone does have problems with this thread then go ahead and report it. I am pretty sure I am well within the rights to make this thread, but if it is a problem then I am happy to let it get deleted. I had no idea that there has been a lot of these lately. I think it makes sense that the traffic of threads should be dedicated to sounding boards of people complaining.
Possibly the reasons for such spike is the saturation of artists picking up due to the increase of main stream media. Thus, the documentation (other then fine artists in history) of the balance between the working artist and the artist working for him/herself.
I don't want this to be a flaming war, I am hoping this can be a place where people can discuss their practices, and learn from each other.
Edit03:
Some great links on related information/threads:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1422830&postcount=42
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88366
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique
I ask because I don't know how to deal with it right now. It's not like the artwork I do is in the field of fine arts where deadlines and financial backing is not like the animation or game industry. I am trying to prepare myself for the environment from what I am told about the game industry. How does someone manage? Is it so easy to just stop thinking about it and just do the work regardless how under confident you are?
I have been in school for awhile and I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. I don't see myself getting to the level I want to be. It's easy to say, I will not be satisfied and if I ever do become satisfied it just means I stop growing...but that feels like it does not help.
I'd just like to hear people's experience just to get another perspective.
Edit01:
not looking for sympathy, just trying to understand how others found their way of keeping their energy up.
Edit02:
If anyone does have problems with this thread then go ahead and report it. I am pretty sure I am well within the rights to make this thread, but if it is a problem then I am happy to let it get deleted. I had no idea that there has been a lot of these lately. I think it makes sense that the traffic of threads should be dedicated to sounding boards of people complaining.
Possibly the reasons for such spike is the saturation of artists picking up due to the increase of main stream media. Thus, the documentation (other then fine artists in history) of the balance between the working artist and the artist working for him/herself.
I don't want this to be a flaming war, I am hoping this can be a place where people can discuss their practices, and learn from each other.
Edit03:
Some great links on related information/threads:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1422830&postcount=42
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88366
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique
Replies
edit: what's with these posts?
I have not noticed that this kind of post happens often. I don't come to general discussions much.
I'll comment because I've suffered with the kind of thing you're talking about, and it really fucking sucks. There are people who can just get through anything and 'man up', but some of us (myself included) suffer more than others and depression of any kind really is no laughing matter, and sometimes simply 'manning up' isn't as easy as one would like to think.
Firstly, decide if what you are doing is genuinely what you enjoy, and if you do, then whether the goal you are seeking to achieve is really what you genuinely want to achieve.
The problem I have found is this; if someone hands me a brief and says 'Here's the guidelines, do it by Friday'... then I have no problem producing great work. But when you're unemployed, or developing your own skill, you need to be able to give yourself those briefs, deadlines and frameworks. And despite it sounding easy to think 'Ok I'll just set myself a project, after all, I want a job right? But if you're like me, those 'self-imposed' guidelines still feel fake, and it's difficult to take them seriously.
However, with all that said, and to be brutally honest, if this is what you really want to do, then you shouldn't have these problems. There are many many people on here that never or rarely ever feel like this, and the reason is that they love what they do, it's their passion and slumps are easy to get out of because they remind themselves that this is what they love to do.
For me, I discovered it wasn't what I really wanted to do at all. Sure I enjoyed making a bit of realtime art here and there but when I got into these slumps, I'd have to think deep, and right to my ultimate goals... 'why am I doing this', 'is this where I want to be headed', and when I did that, I realised whilst I enjoy making 3D, I don't really want to work in the games industry. And for me, that was the time I realised that I should just not get so down anymore, take it on the chin and go find something else. Sure I'd spent 18 months doing 3D, which could be seen as wasted time, but it's much better to pull out while you can, rather than fall into something you regret 30 years later. Interestingly, things brightened up after that.
I'd been 'forcing myself' into it, convinced I wanted to 'work in games' when really, I just liked making a bit of 3D and actually busting ass and ultimately working in a studio was just what I had convinced myself I 'should' do, when the truth was it wasn't really.
If it is still what you're set on doing, then I advise you to see if you can find ways to stick to deadlines. Enter competitions, see if any friends/colleagues need a bit of 3D work doing (don't do commercial work if you're on educational software though), and I would guess that your motivation levels will be higher than if you are just trying to set your own projects.
As I said, you're not gonna get much sympathy here, this subject comes up a lot lately, but for those who are genuinely struggling, they'll sympathise with how bad it can feel.
just get your head down and get on with it. If it sucks , which it probably will, learn to live with it.
It's called the pain barrier
I'm not telling you not to feel what you're feeling, artistic endeavors are some of the most difficult to pursue - period, and it's not an easy thing. But it's just something you'll have to deal with in your own way. The sooner you accept that and move on, the sooner you'll realize "Oh snap, if I'd stayed in that mentality I would've wound up living at the CA.org Lounge."
If you're asking "Is it worth it when all is said and done," there's not a universal answer for that. Depends on you.
(Also, if you hear people telling you to "man up", it's not because they can't relate. It's because they can, and maybe they at some point even posted a thread similar to your somewhere. They just realized afterwords that doesn't get work done.)
That sounds familiar, I have had situation just like that. I pushed through but tried to ignore the result.
@ TeeJay
"The problem I have found is this; if someone hands me a brief and says 'Here's the guidelines, do it by Friday'... then I have no problem producing great work. But when you're unemployed, or developing your own skill, you need to be able to give yourself those briefs, deadlines and frameworks. And despite it sounding easy to think 'Ok I'll just set myself a project, after all, I want a job right? But if you're like me, those 'self-imposed' guidelines still feel fake, and it's difficult to take them seriously."
I think you hit the nail on the head. Your comment helps a lot. I am not looking for sympathy, just how people has dealt with it. I walking through a fog and I just wanted to hear someone else's experiences.
I will try to find a way to keep my own guidelines clear in a format that gives it a tangible and concrete feel.
I appreciate the in depth response.
@ Ruz
I am trying to figure out what works for me, so I am trying to see what is the my version of the pain barrier.
So far I look up inspirational artwork to re-energize my batteries or play some tutorials in the background to keep my mind occupied. What is it that you do to keep the pain barrier from overcoming?
Again, not looking for sympathy here. Just experiences and advice.
gnerally it out of necessity that I do things or probably because I am no good at anything else. Also I really feel I have something to get off my chest when it comes to producing artwork.
Whenever I feel really down, art is one of the main things that makes me happy again
Really you should get on with some work, even if it hurts you to do so.
Posting in p&p is a much more positive thing to do than posting threads like this.
regarding self imposed deadlines, thats really tough, because you can never replicate the pressure of a real contract/job with your spare time work.
I feel its more prductive to spend time learning new techniques in my spare time, which will help me work faster on my next job.
playing games with cool artwork helps also, makes you rememebr why you wanted to do it in the first place.
currently playing through gears of war 1 and quake 4:)
I think you bring a very very good point. It clears my mind to think it is more about getting it done the best you can regardless of the imperfections, because in the end it is as simple as getting it done. The flaws are only part of the learning process, and learning is something we always do.
Thanks everyone for the comments. I appreciate it.
I thought this was suppose to be fun. Its the first time I am hearing "Depression for artists." I can only suggest this that, schedule your work and take breaks often. =\
This may be a little more personal than you were expecting, but fuck it, I'll go there anyway. For a most of the last decade, I've struggled with bouts of depression and brutally crippling social anxiety. The depression made it so difficult to work that I actually didn't do any art whatsoever for over a year at one point. The social anxiety made it extremely difficult to actually ask for help when I needed it to make something I was proud of. To a large extent, these problems haven't gone away, but I'm now more productive than I've been at any point in the past decade.
What's changed? Work. Deadlines. The adrenaline-fueled, pay-risking need to get shit done, and get it done RIGHT FUCKING NOW. It completely destroys any chances for you to think about whether or not what you're doing is up to your standards. Personal feelings only get in the way when you have a deadline hanging over your neck, so you have to push them to the back of your mind and do everything possible to just not fuck up.
Now, as for how this relates to your situation? To be honest, it probably doesn't. You're in a slump. Everybody has a shitty time every once in a while. If you're worried that you're not going to be able to find work, then you have the wrong mindset.
You're going to find work, or you're going to starve. There is no option three.
How can such a shitty thing to say help you at all? It should motivate you to make something that you think could get you a job. You being proud of it is a non-issue. If you're making stuff for a portfolio, then you should be aiming to impress potential employers. Leave your emotional baggage and standards at the door and live up to the standards of the company you're applying for a job at.
I hit myself with tree trunks, haha.
It has helped to look at tutorials or just look up great artwork. I have been looking at the monster hunter artbook (even though I have never played it) for some inspiration.
When you're feeling low about your progress open up your slide show and watch, and prepare to be amazed at how much better you've gotten with each piece.
It's easy to underestimate how much you've improved when you're not comparing the work then to now.
You're primary goal should to to improve as much as reasonably possible, with every piece you do - not be better than pro's that have been doing this for years. Use the wicked shit other people make for inspiration, don't use it to determine how shitty your work is.
I personally think you will never stop 'growing' that's the great thing about art
I can pick out several models I've done while INCREDIBLY depressed, and they turned out better than I thought they would, because I let all of the bs go, and just did it. I didn't look too far ahead, and just focused on the problems at hand, and how to solve them. They weren't exactly award winning mega sculpts, but no one, but maybe you, is expecting those.
If anyone does have problems with this thread then go ahead and report it. I am pretty sure I am well within the rights to make this thread, but if it is a problem then I am happy to let it get deleted. I had no idea that there has been a lot of these lately. I think it makes sense that the traffic of threads should NOT be dedicated to sounding boards of people complaining.
Possibly the reasons for such spike is the saturation of artists picking up due to the increase of main stream media. Thus, the documentation (other then fine artists in history) of the balance between the working artist and the artist working for him/herself.
I don't want this to be a flaming war, I am hoping this can be a place where people can discuss their practices, and learn from each other.
Edit:
Here is a link of another thread from CGtalk that I just found. Similar discussion.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/archive/index.php/t-217308.html
Don't worry about Andreas. His "I just reported this post" is more blog-ish than this thread.
Just stay away from the things you know aren't good for you like crappy food and excessive alcohol, but also avoid toxic people who cleverly disguise themselves as your friends and family. If they can't dig you out of the ditch you feel you're in, they may be the wrong company for you. Try your best to get some sleep and do something like... I don't know, go outside and get some fresh air.
If you are feeling your skills are not good enough do something about it and buy a few gnomon/3dmotive/eat3D DVDs and work your craft.
I can't believe that in this day and age with accessible information everywhere people are still creating threads like this.
Back on Topic: I have been in your shoes a few times, feeling that I am not going anywhere, and I end up taking a small break from modelling or even art as a whole and do something else, then I find myself progressing and end up finishing a model and I get better. Just take a break, get yourself together, it'll all work out.
No need to be so harsh. Here, in case of emergency:
That actually helped thanks :P
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68966
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72488
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85514
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83455
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86041
See, that's the problem with being butthurt cause I called you out about making a thread asking for information that could already be found in 20 other threads had you used the search function. You have a freak out, and then end up with a lot of egg on your face. You'll also notice, those posts of value are ART RELATED. And I didn't even post threads I started with personal queries that other people found use of, or crit posts etc. Or general entertainment threads, which we all get something out of.
I think Hazardous' Deviantart post should be put in the READ THIS FIRST sticky
Google "depression" and "art". It's pretty well known that artists are more prone to depression than most but I don't need to throw 10 links at you to prove that.
If you can try to see the light, though as difficult as it may be, it's easier to overcome depression when you think of it as an attitude, rather than feeling it and living it. If you think of it as hormones, slap them hormones upside the head instead of involving yourself with it.
Haha, that's funny you posted that because I was contemplating if I should link that here. I am reading some other related threads.
I like how someone posted a medical explanation. That was very in-depth.
I think I should have titled this more about motivation then depression, it seems people are getting the wrong impression. Sorry if anyone is getting frustrated with seeing the same common threads popping up. It goes to show that it is something worth talking about. The "How To Win" thread is a fantastic read, found via "Feeling Guilty" thread.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88511
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88366
Hazardous post, take a look:
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1422830&postcount=42
This type of anxiety can come from many places. Not being able to get a job, not liking the work you produce, boredom, procrastination, etc., etc.
My advice - take a break, then get back to work, dammit!
Also, exercise (simple 30 minutes dance, walk, run, etc) will do wonders in knocking out the depression out of you and correct your hormones.
Eat alot a good amount of Potassium, unless you have heart problem, potassium helps.
Hazardous's post is very inspiring.
People are really that heartless and fucking inconsiderate? I couldn't care less if this topic was posted 5 times a day, it's a serious issue, if someones having problems let's help the guy out. Oh, sorry I forgot, it's either 'game related or gtfo'.
Seriously if you don't like the topic, don't post in it, don't read it, skip it and move on. Or is it taking up precious space that could be taken up by another 'X studio closes' thread, or 'Mr. So and So says freemium is the future' etc etc.
I've empathised with a lot of people here recently, and they were mostly new guys just coming here for a bit of moral support with people who share similar interests.
Maybe I'm just soft, some people's attitude here sucks though, just take a minute to think about what you're saying; Someone comes here feeling low, and the most important thing to you is that they're posting something off topic, or repeated, and 'Use the damn search function' is the most therapeutic advice you can give. Wow, what a guy!
Wow thank you! I was trying to get that point across but apparently some people didn't seem to understand.
Feeling depressed is something you just have to deal with. Since this is art it becomes very personal and it's hard to judge art without at least being a little bit subjective. It all comes down to people's taste or whatever sells at the time and even if people don't like your stuff it doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad.
I think it's important to think ahead, you're not always gonna be bad and you can only achieve that by working hard and smart. Being too sure of yourself isn't good either, you might feel that you're already good enough and don't bother working as hard as you should. You need that balance!
As for all of you people who keep complaining about "useless" threads; you're just making a fool out of yourselves. You're not helping this community by "cleaning up" bad threads, your lousy attitude is actually making it worse. If you don't like these kind of threads then don't read them, it's as easy as that.
I tried it a long time ago, and after a while, my family commented on me and asked me on why I was being such a, for a lack of better terms, bitch.
After foregoing said tech and rolling back to standard 8-6 hours of sleep routine, I found out not only my memory improved and I could remember stuff, but that I could function much better and stopped being moody (EI: If a friend of mine said "Lol, this base mesh sucks", I stopped retorting against them in less than flattering words which included me calling out on them being adopted, and instead laugh it off and continue my work.)
As you said, and which I think many of us do too, Pomodori is the answer to most problem, even keeping fit and no burning your food
I agree, drink away your sorrows.
Agreed. Thats why I reported your reply.
Thats how I deal with the depression. Making douches/dicks pissed.
[ame]
But in any case, sometimes medication may be needed depending on the person. The dicks who go on about just do art, or that stop whining.. STFU n00b!
EDIT: Also, booze is a depressant, so I realize its in jest, but taking booze for depression is counterproductive.
I love you! haha about time there somebody puts their foot down!
Back on topic: OP if you want you can pm me, I don't mind talking privately
This made me chuckle.