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Silly Question to Old School 3d Guys

I've been playing a bunch of PS1 games lately and I've noticed that the characters are usually a bunch of objects instead of one piece. Example:

FFVIIbattleexample.jpg

Notice how Cloud's (guy with big sword and hair) arms and legs seem to be split up into 2 pieces instead of one? Why exactly is that?

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  • Stinger88
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    Stinger88 polycounter
    Thats Low poly modeling.

    The mesh doesnt have to be a "closed" mesh. Think of this technique a bit like old action figures, with seperate meshes for the different limbs. I wasn't making games back then but I also expect it might be to do with they way rigging was done back then.

    It was common for characters to be made this way. Here's Ecstacica 2. They were made of ZSpheres, long before ZBrush was even thought of. ;P

    http://games-history.ru/?division=game&id=533

    ecstatica_2.gif
  • System
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    System admin
    Aw man those were the days.

    I still have mucho respect for the guys who can model in a truly old school fashion, BoBo/B1ll et al.
  • Tyrone70
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    yeah, i figured rigging had to be the reason why too. I'm guessing verts couldn't be weighted to multiple bones in a realtime environment back in the day. I just wanted to know why exactly because that's just my own theory.
  • leilei
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    leilei polycounter lvl 14
    Probably because for the PSX then it was faster to rotate a mesh than to transform its vertices
  • Harford
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    Harford polycounter lvl 7
    Yup, rigging. Before realtime skinning/weighting.
  • vargatom
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    Yeah there was no spare CPU time to do skinning on the PSX and the old PCs without graphics cards (where the CPU had to do the rendering as well)

    I think even Quake 3 had no skeletial animation, it was all baked out mesh animation at 15 fps or so. That's why lower/upper body and head were separate objects so that they could move independently.

    Half-life was one of the first FPS games to use bones and weighting in real time.
  • vargatom
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    (BTW - damnit I'm really old school... ;) )
  • EarthQuake
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    vargatom wrote: »
    (BTW - damnit I'm really old school... ;) )

    Hey, I remember being excited about the "tags" in q3's animation system, so... yeah.
  • Tyrone70
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    vargatom wrote: »
    (BTW - damnit I'm really old school... ;) )

    I'm happy. Some of us young bucks like to hear about how things were in the good old days. A time before 2k targas and colored lights :P
  • Serygala
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    Folks...while looking at this screenshots... I realised that my childhood mind saved all memorys from Final Fantasy 7 as it would have looked completely realistic :O
  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • PixelMasher
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    PixelMasher veteran polycounter
    Serygala wrote: »
    Folks...while looking at this screenshots... I realised that my childhood mind saved all memorys from Final Fantasy 7 as it would have looked completely realistic :O

    yea...as a rule of thumb, never ever go back and play games you thought were awesome as a kid, or even 10 years ago. games dont really age well. It will be funny 10 years from now looking back at BF3 and crysis and thinking how awesome they looked. hard to imagine but probably a reality.
  • vargatom
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    Actually there are some games that can transcend that border and remain cool even after many years. I guess they're different for everyone but I'm sure we all have at least a few.
  • leilei
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    leilei polycounter lvl 14
    games dont really age well.

    Only the 1995ish early low textured polygon games don't age well (especially with affine texturing it looks really bad on the PSX side, combined with low framerates of the 4 major 5th gen consoles). Anything before in 2D or PS2+ era seem to age a lot better.
  • Brendan
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    Brendan polycounter lvl 8
    What are you chumps talking about?

    SubCulture still looks alright on my PC (even if it does go 16-bit). The lighting is OK, the draw distance is acceptable for a submarine-based vehicular open world RPG sandbox. Sure some of the stuff is just a sprite, but hey, it holds itself together well enough I'd reckon it'd look good enough that if it was released as an App then it wouldn't lose too many marks on graphics at all!
  • leilei
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    leilei polycounter lvl 14
    3d accellerators saved PC gaming. We're referring to the era before that, which does not age well
  • ErichWK
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    ErichWK polycounter lvl 12
    There are some PSX games that I think still look great today. Mostly through Art Direction.. ie: Vagrant Story, FFIX, Metal Gear Solid, and Mega Man Legends.
  • Joseph Silverman
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    Joseph Silverman polycounter lvl 17
    vagrant story looks better than most modern games
  • Stinger88
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    Stinger88 polycounter
    I play old games all the time. For some reason I just need to replay them. Just last night I was trying to get Magic Carpet to run without crashing (using Dosbox) it still looks great imo. Can't find a fix though :( Just finished playing through Legacy of Kain: Blood omen and Soulreaver 1+2 on PSX. Also, just bought the oddboxx on steam so I'll be playing through all them again for the umpteenth time.

    I don't know why I play them again really. I have a shit load of new games I havent finished (darksiders, AVP, etc). Maybe I'm trying to recapture my youth or maybe the games were just better back then.
  • Saman
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    Saman polycounter lvl 13
    Well, FF7 was released on a psx though. The games that were released the same year on high-end arcades like Street fighter 3 have aged much better. Pixel art at it's finest!
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    Theres a group of people re-texturing FF7 for PC... should google it.
  • d1ver
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    d1ver polycounter lvl 14
    Tyrone70 wrote: »
    yeah, i figured rigging had to be the reason why too. I'm guessing verts couldn't be weighted to multiple bones in a realtime environment back in the day. I just wanted to know why exactly because that's just my own theory.

    this.
    btw it played out nicely in gta 3, cause it made it easier for the peeps to fall apart when affected by explosions.) The only 3d gta game that had this:)
  • Tyrone70
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    @d1ver: yeah, I noticed that too, but aside from the 4th GTA, I never was really impressed by the graphics, but I always chalked it up to them having to cut back in order to make the world more populated.

    In terms of graphics, I think Tekken 3 still looks good to me. And you can't really complain about Parapa the Rapper :D
  • teaandcigarettes
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    teaandcigarettes polycounter lvl 12
    Hah, play some FF9 and look at those environments. Those guys were fucking insane. The amount of detail that they put in those environments is mind blowing. True, the were prerendered stills and the lighting doesn't look so good anymore, but modelling alone? Is slick as hell; I always wonder how hard was it to create all this organic stuff without Zbrush (probably displacement maps and all that...but still).

    Recently I found a portfolio of an artist who worked on it: http://www.jakerowell.com/blog/2010/01/20/final-fantasy-ix-portfolio-art/
    FFIX art in high res. I never thought I would see that ;) The things I would do to get an HD remake of that game...

    Unseen64 also has a few shots that show how their made their environments. The fact that they painted over renders doesn't really surprise me; I remember how back in the day all my friend though it was all hand painted :poly142:
  • Dan!
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    Dan! polycounter lvl 6
    wow thanks for the link teaandcigarettes - I've never seen anyones portfolio from the square games. Personally I think Chrono Cross still holds up well- found a fan site that has all the background environments which are currently cycling as my desktops.
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