Do i need an artist's permission??
polycounter lvl 10
Hello everyone,
I was just wondering if anyone knows the answer to my question. If i want to model some concept art that ive found on a site like Deviantart or someones portfolio on the internet, do i need that artist's permission to use their art as ref?? I would only be using it for practice obviously and possibly use in my own portfolio. I was just curious because i dont want to step on any other artist's toes and definitely dont want to go breaking any laws. Thanks!!
I was just wondering if anyone knows the answer to my question. If i want to model some concept art that ive found on a site like Deviantart or someones portfolio on the internet, do i need that artist's permission to use their art as ref?? I would only be using it for practice obviously and possibly use in my own portfolio. I was just curious because i dont want to step on any other artist's toes and definitely dont want to go breaking any laws. Thanks!!
Replies
If you aren't making money I don't think you technically need their permission.
Once you want to use it in any public way like a mod or a competition or anything like that, you definitely need to get permission.
I used to ask permission, but me being a huge slacker and never finishing anything started feeling bad. So now I don't really ask permission anymore but just make sure I give credits, even if it's only loosely based on or inspired by a concept.
--- though I would mention in the presentation that he was created/owned by Marvel Comics Inc.... or I guess Disney now.
I don't think it makes you a phoney. How are you a phoney if you did all the work of transforming their idea into another medium? If you use your own labor to take an idea from concept to expression (no matter where that idea comes from), you're not a phoney.
Does anyone see how bad this is? People are shying away from certain kinds of art because they're not sure if some artist isn't going to unleash their lawyers on them. The OP is afraid that he will be attacked in some way if he tries to take inspiration from another artist's work. If you have to stop and think about whether you need to ask permission to create art, you're allowing yourself to be limited. I think a lot of artists need to let go of their attachment to their expressions and realize that what's important is their experience.
Art is an experience. That's not something you can bottle up, put borders around, or stand guard over. The experience is what drives the art and no one can take that away from us because we carry the experience with us of every piece of art we put to the "canvas". I think the business side of it has made people too focused on ownership and controlling use in order to drive up scarcity. Also, they tend to idolize the work they create and that, since they made it, it belongs to them. That simply ignores the fact that their art was built from all of the art and human experience that has been accumulated over the past eon.
I know what you're thinking, "but allowing every yahoo to make derivative creations of my works would dilute the value of my art." It won't, because you know that you are able to do what you do because your art shows it. Those that can't do it won't get far showing off your work as their own because they aren't on the same level as you are and anyone that is any real competition to you already has their own work to exhibit their skill. Even if those fakes actually get the job, they won't be able to keep it if their work doesn't match the quality they claimed they were capable of.
@n8lugo
I'd say if you want to use concepts to create 3D work for your portfolio, you don't need to ask anybody permission to make art. The worst you'll do is offend or anger the artist you draw your inspiration from, but it's quite plainly fair use. Art shouldn't need permission. Art is better when it's set free. Even with that, let people know where you got the idea from. If we all help each other, we can all get ahead easier. Giving credit to your inspiration is like an intellectual hand-job to a fellow artist. :poly142:
probably not a good idea since the industry is so small and interconnected - always a good idea to ask and always give credit.
From the perspective of an employer I would absolutely want it to be credited.
Coming up with a cool concept is a massive part of the success of the model, if I saw a portfolio of decent work that all had awesome basic concepts with no credit to another artist I think "wow, so maybe his skills aren't top notch but he has great ideas, the skills can always be developed to match."
But if they aren't actually from your own concepts it becomes disingenuous.
That said, it's a great learning experience to work from really good concept work, so it's well worth it to just ask and credit where due. Most artists I know would be happy to oblige.
as soon as start modeling a concept/idea, you put your own flavour/style into your model. this creates a new piece of art. the source of inspiration might be seen, still, it is something new, something just you could create the way it turned out.
if you look at "regular" art, taking stuff and create something new is a standard method.
i know lawyers will see this different, but i'm sick of this. we're not talking about steeling and relabeling or reselling existing artwork, but about a creative process, about expressing yourself through a medium, be it with a pencil, a 3d app or knives and a scissor if you da a collage.
if you fly over your inspiration art folders you see so much stuff which comes from same inspiration.(and i'm not talking just about personal artwork...) still every piece has it's own flavour and additions, which makes it something unique and new.
of course giving credit and tell people the roots of your artwork is never a bad thing.
"Glad you like my art, cheers/thankyou/etc..."
I had this happen several time to me...bleh...
Its less painful than someone having a issue with it if you haven't bothered.
And I would always credit people, its just a nice thing for artists to do for each other, pay it forward and all that fluffy stuff.
Maybe not a phoney, but it isn't your idea and people can feel a bit awkward about taking a 2d concept and '3D-ing' it (myself included,) although I'd like to start doing it a lot more since it seems ok, as long as the concept artist is asked and credited. I always felt by making a 3D model of someone elses concept art that it would just show a lack of creativity and originality.
You don't need to ask but I think its better to, just to show consideration for the other artist's work (some artists may have a different opinion about letting their work be used - better to be safe than sorry
So it's the other guy's idea? I greatly disagree with that. That person you're taking inspiration from got that idea from someone else, who got that from someone else, etc, and so on. It's not my idea, but it's not theirs either. Ideas belong to everyone. To claim ownership of an idea is to claim ownership of all the ideas that came before it and were incorporated into this latest expression. It's common courtesy to credit the expressions of other artists that you get inspiration from, but that 2D work and the subsequent 3D work that builds on it are uniquely different expressions of the same idea.
I do agree that it's rude to not ask and/or not give credit (it's unprofessional), but the ideas are not anyone's exclusive property and they are different expressions, no matter how similar they may appear.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not slating anyone who choses to use other people's concepts for developing 3D models, in fact I've seen some pros such as Rafael Grassetti do this and they do it amazingly well! Again, I'd like to do the same at some point in the future, there's tons of 2D concepts on sites like CG Hub just waiting to inspire 3D artists.
I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by saying this, its really not meant in an offensive way. Would be interesting to hear other people's thoughts on the matter (sorry for hijacking the thread
On the contrary, I think this is quite relevant.
Although, I do think you're confusing the expression with the idea. There's the ideas embedded in a work (e.g. pose, props, facial expression, size, shape, colors, genre, style), those belong mutually to everyone. What's really to the artist's credit is the expression of those ideas (i.e. how those mutual ideas are remixed). Ideas are like a painter's palette. They are nothing to anyone separately, but anyone can use them in any combination. When you "mix" or "remix" them, they become an expression of those ideas combined (e.g. a painting). So when you take a 2D concept, and turn it into a 3D object, you are remixing the ideas (the paint) the concept artist used and making them in to an entirely new expression (the object or the "painting" if you will). How new it is as an expression is purely up to speculation and you'll hear a wide range of differing opinion. Heck, just pasting a giant penis on the 2D concept art is a new expression. It expresses an irreverent view on the existing work and seeks to make a statement about it. The original artist might not like it, but they have no power nor right to censor it.
You can ignore the legalese/copyright stuff posted above, it's mostly irrelevant to the subject here. Just ask the original artist. Who knows, that person maybe planned to model or sculpt the concept him/herself.
I agree with Jordan, this whole discussion doesn't make much sense. Just ask, and don't start on the model before getting clear permission. Isn't it plain obvious ?
Greevar, I find it quite ironic that you go to such lengths to explain your views and knowledge of copyright laws and how they dont make sense, but at the same time give legal advice based on such laws - therefore making your advice completely irrelevant to the subject matter here.
The OP did express concerns about running afoul of the law, that's why I mentioned the law as it pertains to his particular situation. It's completely relevant. Perhaps my point was a bit protracted and technical, but I was trying to point out how and why there is no restriction on using the concept without asking the artist. The only thing the OP risks, is pissing off an artist who will subsequently retaliate by telling everyone they know, not to hire him. I was also expressing a point about the emerging problem inherent in the culture of idea ownership prevalent in the creative industry. I don't see the reason for your contention.
Bottom line: The law allows it, but the network of artists in the industry will come down on you like a bag of hammers if you don't ask.
Is that more to the point?
And no, it's not all about the network of artists getting pissed at someone - it's about giving advice on how to be succesful in this field.
If I have to review applicants, and on one hand I see one modeler only working from concepts found on CGhub, and on the other hand, a modeler showing great craftmanship AND working from his own original designs, I would choose to hire the second one.
So, to get back to the OP my advice would be : always ask permission... but most importantly, come up with your own ideas and concepts and work from there. Originality and personality will take you further that just being able to translate a concept to 3D.
Agreed, this is what I was trying to get at originally - in the simplest way of putting it I think there's more creativity and originality put into someone's own concept than using someone else's online, doesn't mean to say it shouldn't be done. There's some really killer 3D models made from other peoples 2D works