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When is it okay to use triangles?

I'm trying to get into making game art and I want to know...when is it okay to use triangles for models intended for animation in a game? I often look at models from released games and get frustrated when I find that none of them seem to conform to a strictly quad polyflow. There are quads in some places I'd expect (edgeloops around the mouth, for instance) but not in other places. Heck, the EagleMan model I see on the top banner seems to use nothing but triangles!

So when is it okay to just go ahead and use a triangle?

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  • Bigjohn
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    Bigjohn polycounter lvl 11
    When it's in the engine, it's all a bunch of triangles anyway. So there's really nothing stopping you from using nothing but tris if you want to.

    The main place to use quads is if you're building a mesh to sculpt on. Quads subdivide nicely, and tris do not. If you have tris, you'll get all sorts of pinching when you subdivide. Although that's possible even with quads if you have poles... but that's a different story.

    The other thing is when you're laying down some edge-loops for deformation, especially in the face area, but anywhere that deforms really, it just makes more sense to work with quads. Simply because you can see what you're doing much easier that way.

    So in short, if you're working on a model that's going in a game, I see no problem with using tris whenever and wherever you want.
  • Aerosol
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    To use an example, the models in Street Fighter 4 have quad faceloops in animated areas like on/around the mouth, and around the eyes, as well as the faceloop the goes from the nose and down the cheek. That is, they are triangles, but they were obviously triangulated after the fact. But in other places, basic triangles are used.

    So you saying, if I'm not intending to use subsurf to add smoothness to a model, it's completely okay to have triangles (as long as they won't deform horribly) wherever I want? If so, are there any guidelines to using triangles that'll deform right in a mesh?

    I'm sorry if you feel like I'm repeating your words. I just find it easier to understand things if I put them in my own words, and I like to repeat my understanding to confirm it's right :P.
  • Bigjohn
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    Bigjohn polycounter lvl 11
    Triangles deform the same way a quad does. A quad is just 2 triangles, that's it. I also find it easier to use quads just because they're quicker to lay down.

    So, just work with quads, and whenever you feel like you could a tri, use it.
  • Aerosol
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    Thanks alot, all.

    Does anyone know of any resources that can show me exactly how triangles can affect shading and such?
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Aerosol wrote: »
    Thanks alot, all.

    Does anyone know of any resources that can show me exactly how triangles can affect shading and such?

    3vNUL.png
  • Aerosol
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    Thanks ZacD. Really, I think this is by far the most helpful 3D forum I've ever asked a question in. And I mean helpful without the sting of sarcasm you get at other places. Thanks to everyone that replied in this thread.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    As long as you aren't an arrogant "newbie" polycount is very helpful and friendly. Just be willing to learn and do some searching :P
  • oXYnary
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    oXYnary polycounter lvl 18
    If your sub-div a master model to bake the normals unto a low. Use polygons as much as possible as when you smooth subdivide, you get strange effects if the model has triangles.

    Especially if you get into exporting models for say Zbrush or such. Triangles are always apparent.

    This only applies for the master model. Not the final in game low poly.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Also, some apps wont import models with tris, or hate them, like zBrush.
  • Aerosol
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    Well I'm stuck with free software for now. Blender is what I model in and, when I've finally got all the fundamentals down, Sculptris is what I'll be sculpting in. No Zbrush for me! As I understand it, Sculptris is based entirely around tris, so that shouldn't be a problem for me. I have to admit, I was a little disheartened when I thought that I wouldn't be able to rely on subsurf anymore. Every tutorial I've found operates on the assumption you'll be subsurfing in the end.

    Side question: Is it common practice to make models with little regard for poly flow and count with the intention to retopologize it later? I attempted to establish a workflow like this with Sculptris, but sculpting turned out to not be my cup of tea. Give me enough time with clay and an armature and I could make a model just fine. Tell me to do it in Sculptris and it all falls apart! There's a distinct lack of tutorials or timelapses that really explain what's happening also.
  • PredatorGSR
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    PredatorGSR polycounter lvl 14
    For next gen pipelines, I think most artists these days make the high poly first and don't worry about polycount. Then you retopo or build the low poly to match the high poly, which is where you start thinking about that stuff. For handheld stuff, polycount is still really important and isn't baked from a high poly, so you need to think about it more and sooner.
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