Are diplomas useful in the game art world ?
Hi everyone,
right now, i'm in France, in a 3d school in which i've skipped 2 years, learning stuff by myself 'cause the teachers cannot explain me a lot of technics. I'm really upset about it, as i go there for nothing. In France, this school is considered as a good one (objectif3d), and some friends following other courses in other places told me not to try them, 'cause it would be the same.
So, next year, i'd like to follow formations on the internet (cgsociety, scott eaton's anatomy courses) and work on my 2d indie game, but my parents want me to get a certificate.
Here come my questions : is it important to get a diploma in the game art world ? I've been taught during my past training periods that the first thing employers would look at was the portfolio. Also, is it a viable solution today to work as a freelance ?
You can take a look at my sketchbook here : http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1236323#post1236323
Thanks in advance !
right now, i'm in France, in a 3d school in which i've skipped 2 years, learning stuff by myself 'cause the teachers cannot explain me a lot of technics. I'm really upset about it, as i go there for nothing. In France, this school is considered as a good one (objectif3d), and some friends following other courses in other places told me not to try them, 'cause it would be the same.
So, next year, i'd like to follow formations on the internet (cgsociety, scott eaton's anatomy courses) and work on my 2d indie game, but my parents want me to get a certificate.
Here come my questions : is it important to get a diploma in the game art world ? I've been taught during my past training periods that the first thing employers would look at was the portfolio. Also, is it a viable solution today to work as a freelance ?
You can take a look at my sketchbook here : http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1236323#post1236323
Thanks in advance !
Replies
Freelancing = profitable but insecure work
also. i read your post in a french accent in my head.
OUI OUI
I am aware that most companies will look over your Portfolio before your Resume, and CV. But I am sure that having the qualifications in a physical state (such as a diploma0 would be more reassuring than say someoen who's home taught.
Once again, this is purely speculation, and the only way to really know would be to ask employers directly if it matters to them.
Sylk~
Use the time while studying and do as much as possible on your own, bc THIS is what will get you a job.
I think that's a myth. When I got my O-1, nobody gave a rats ass about whether or not I had a diploma (I do have one, but nobody ever cared about actually seeing it).
At least when it comes to your education as an artist. As mentioned, there's quite a few good tutorials online, books, and workshops that you can attend.
So take drawing, painting, and sculpting...If an artist has a strong art background it always shows in his/her 3D work.
Well, i don't wanna stay in a school. As i've always done everything on my own and already work on several games, it depresses me. The rythm is damn slow, and i usually finish a whole week of work in a day.
Do formations deliver certificates or so that are as valuable as a school certificate (in France, there are no diplomas related to video games) ?
I think you'll regret not going to an art school if you're intent on being an artist.
Well, I have a whole year to think about it.
Some people said here that a diploma might be reassuring for employers, but I already have experience on both amateur/indie and professional teams. Wouldn't this be more valuable ?
But it isn't a replacement for doing good work; get a good portfolio, above all else. A degree is fairly expensive for such a seemingly small factor; but keep in mind it can teach you things you wouldn't otherwise know. For me, I am learning team-work, and regaining my love for 3D. Also, I am learning anatomy and other things I would never learn otherwise. It is worth it, for me.
But if you are just getting a degree because you think having one will help you get a job, don't.
You could be spending that time making your portfolio and getting awesome! Also, though, don't be cocky about it; if you could learn more, and you feel like you WILL learn more at college, consider going.
I don't think this is ever really the case, though. You never sit in front of two portfolios, thinking... "man, those two are pretty much completely at the same skill level! But this guy got a college degree, so let's pick that guy.". Instead of the college degree, you'd ask yourself who has more experience, who'd be more likely to deliver great work.
There's always someone who fits the job description better than the other guy - and I don't think people really care all that much about degrees in our industry. At all. Some of my buddies are high school graduates and are in top tier positions, simply because their results are worth more than the results some other guy with a college degree might have gotten the studio.
That's not to say that a degree is bad - but I think the real worth of it is that you're starting to communicate with people that are doing the same thing you do and it also buys you some time to get better at what you're doing.
But in the game-art world at the moment portfolio is more important then qualifications, I think there are some corporations who want a degree however.
Probably the best place in the UK to do it, too.
If you want to travel outside of Europe to work at some point mate, yes, you need a recognised qualification
To the OP and anyone else reading, parasite7 is a recruiter at blizzard. Listen up!
I'm not really sure what degree you will need to get a job in united states though... Is your education a 2 year long one? Would that give you an associate's degree equivalent diploma? I've read that you'll need a bachelor's degree(4 years) but some also say that an associate's degree is enough(2 years). Perhaps parasite7 or somebody else could help us out here(sorry for hijacking a bit). Is an associate's degree enough or do you at least need a bachelor's?
EDIT : it's a 4 years course, but i've skipped two years. But in France, you don't graduate from 3d schools with a diploma... only a certificate. So I dunno if it has any value.
About the job, i don't really know if i wanna go oversea... in fact, i'd love both to work as an indie and apply for jobs on games that make stars shine in my eyes (like blizzard's game
If I must follow such courses, i think i'll apply to an online school, like animation mentors or so. Here, I'm simply wasting my time.
I'm doing a 4 year degree (Bachelor) , though I also have 3 diplomas, two 1 year diplomas and 1 two year diploma.
That being said:
Portfolio > Piece of Paper with your name and a school's name on it.
The paper itself will not help you, but what you get out of the school will.
As other have said, it's only useful if you're looking for work overseas or in another country.
I'll take the dropout with an awesome portfolio over the graduate who expects a job handed to him with a weak portfolio.
If somebody out there pays $200 ( x 18 models in total !!!) for this quality it's very possible to make it "viable".
Well, about the VISA, I think it's quite simple to get through it with a decent contract (i've already some friends who went to the canada, and my girlfriend searched some infos on it too).
I recommend a degree for the Visa options it will invariably offer you, and honestly some years spent studying/partying, well i can think of worse ways to spend my time
Also if your chomping at the bit to get some paid work you can always try line up some smaller contracts while you study.
Also there's a LOT of CG artists nowadays who have some sort of degree (not just 3D related). At least from my personal experience I'm meeting less and less people who have no degree at all. And of the degree less many are long time vets of the industry from the age where there wasn't much schooling available.
If an employer has 2 guys from overseas with the same skills, the one with the degree will win. Just less hassle to get them in and less uncertainty if they'll ever be able to start working at the job.
If you just want to stay in the EU anyway then you don't need a degree. But if that dream job in the US comes across you may have a harder time getting it.
School teaches you to work with others under direction and on a deadline. It's hard to emulate that sort of atmosphere on your own.
And in school, you don't get what you pay for, you get out what you put in. So if you go to school, work hard and make it count.
This means "in school, you have to learn by yourself", doesn't it ? That's what i'm already doing. I've done like 3 3d scenes in a month, and a lot of drawings. But I have learned only what i learned by myself, which means my parents pay 6k per year for nothing.
That's the problem : is a piece of paper worth tons of money and my own health ? Being in the bad environment makes you sick, you know.
Problem is, you also learn that after a couple years of professional experience. But you need 12 (!!) years of professional experience to be able to get a US visa. That my friend, is bullshit.
Apparently, they value 1 year of uni = 3 years of professional work.
When your working, you have serious dead lines, colleagues with same passion you do, etc.
In uni, you get people that are just burning their parents money, parties all days, and constant hangovers.
Valorizing that on top of important professional work, is... I really don't know what they were thinking when they created this law.
http://www.h1bvisa.info/h1b_visa_requirements
If you've already started the school and only have a little more time to do, I'd finish it probably. It WILL help if you want to go work in the US, just "contacts" won't be enough, even some of the best companies won't bother even trying to ship you over there if you don't have the required education/work experience to pass immigration.
Also look at the companies you want to work for, there aren't so many choices in France unfortunatly...
Some french schools do give game related, state recognised diplomas btw, at least the one I went to did (Isart, even though I wasn't there for the game stuff, I did their film cursus).
well in your case, a large ass company stood behind the o-1, but o-1 is not the usual case for a work permit, normally its h-1b, o-1 is nothing most companies give out, i only know 2, naughty dog and well as in your case blizzard, i guess companies like valve and epic and the few other really big players do that as well, the rest will have to handle it via h-1b and getting that is based on proving your work- and/or educational background.
Also
What's the reason for studying another 4 years? Is it for visa?
Is it possible to "stack" several diplomas to get more points? I mean samgriffiths has three more diplomas other than the one he's studying for now. Would it be possible to get 2 one year diplomas and the two year diploma for 4 years?
I'm at objectif3d, in Montpellier.
In fact, i'm 18, but if i finish this year, i'll have a 2 years degree (dunno how you call that, in France it's like A-level equivalent + 2).
That's exactly it. Making a single model (without textures, and high poly or so) can take multiple days for several of my classmates... right now i'm laid off, and i'm in this situation since 3 weeks at school. I take advantage of this time but... you always waste a bit of it going to school, using their slow computer, being forbidden to install zbrush etc. 'cause it's supposed to be part of next year's program...
I've tried to take a look at the animation courses, as we're in the same open space, but they're too slow too.
I've already installed it some time ago. I meant that going there slows me down.
My other diplomas arn't really 'strong' and largely recognized, a BND honours degree I hope would allow me to relocate to different countries.
I go to to uni while studying in my own time, I figured that I will be pretty awesome in 4 years if I've got where I am now in 2 years.
cg artist need more option for where they going to work.