Concept Sculpting VS 2D concepting
polycounter lvl 13
Hey guys whats up, I've seen many videos lately of people using sculpting tools to concept instead of 2D tools such as PS artrage etc.
I'm thinking about designing a new character myself, and I'm wondering which way I should go about doing it, concepting it with 3d tools, or concepting it the classic way
So basically I just wanna see what you guys think about both kinds, preferences, thoughts, which one is better than the other (for you) which one you use more often, things like that. Thanks
-Will
I'm thinking about designing a new character myself, and I'm wondering which way I should go about doing it, concepting it with 3d tools, or concepting it the classic way
So basically I just wanna see what you guys think about both kinds, preferences, thoughts, which one is better than the other (for you) which one you use more often, things like that. Thanks
-Will
Replies
http://www.cgchannel.com/2010/03/iconic-creature-design-with-neville-page/
It also gives your client something a bit more accurate to work from because they know what you've produced actually looks right in 3D.
People with zero or poor skills with a pencil, usually go to the zbrush way, they create a cube or shitty basemeshes and they play with them, expecting to create something, by art of magic.
For me is better to do the concepting in a paper, i never waste time.
I guess i use a mix, i usualy know mostly in my head what i want so i go either way.
a) get reference
b) write down characteristics (clothing, facial features, looks, etc)
c) do a quick concept sculpt out of a box - mesh for the head
d) paintover the box mesh to add details etc.
e) create a stick - mesh of the body in max with the basic proportions you want and take a shot and bring the shot into your head paint.
f) paint the body
g) make a modeling sheet of the body
h) modeling stage
I dunno, I'm thinking it might be a little longer than it has to be, or if this idea is shit or not. Any comments or anything about this post or still my previous post would be awesome. Thanks!
-Will
People with zero or poor skills with Zbrush, usually go to the pencil way, they create a stickfigure or shitty silhouette and they play with them, expecting to create something, by art of magic.
For me is better to do the concepting in Zbrush, i never waste time."
universal balance restored
I'm not sure that you need b: you should have most of those things in your head before step a: anyway, and if concepting for a 3rd party that will probably be noted in the brief.
The best advice that I can give if you are concepting for yourself is to do what comes naturally to you, dont feel that you have to tick a series of boxes before you can move on to the actual modelling phase, regardless of wether you use a sculpting program or a pencil. Hell, I used to be a miniatures sculptor and sometimes I will still concept with actual clay, just cos its there and I like it.....sorry I'm probably rambling, I will let someone that can type a coherent sentence take this further
we should see the "sculptures" LOL. Skills are skills, don't put a software man. You FAIL.
I should have not said that although it's a truth like a castle. Don't hold a grudge for that and be enough modest. For all the things we use daily, a concept is always involved. And if you work, you will always part from a concept or a reference.
Our traditional skills are always reflected on our 3d scultures. If you are good at drawing, you are good at modelling/sculpting.
Anyways, do what you want. Is so frustrating to learn to draw?
Concept>good base model mapped>sculpt>texturing
only 4 steps.
Ironbearxl, it's bla-i-zer, not bla-zi-er.
Do you read bad on purpose? Where do i say sculpting is inferior? where? can you point me?, i'm just saying that drawing is faster. Nothing more, nothing less. Do i need to explain myself better?
I just commented the way i do things and talked about some real facts, give or take, just that, and i don't give a shit if you don't agree with me, easy. You can do things as you prefer, at the end, the important is the result and the time needed.
Try to get a job as concept artist, and you will see how "nobody cares if your ideas come from paper or from digital clay or whatever". You will be asked to express your ideas on a paper, with clear drawings, so modellers could do their job. Bah, i should not be saying this to you.
And here we are talking about concept sculpting vs 2d concepting, not about me. At least you could share your point of view with arguments instead of replying me.
Do you know how to draw?
pardon me for touching your weak points and don't hold a grudge :poly141:
BTW, gibson543, I really don't know the purpose of this thread when you say you are not the best at drawing, people without a good level in traditional skills will react like this. You know your limits, and all what you can or can't do. Some Concept artists are not very good with perspectives, and they model basics shapes in 3d as helpers...
All is a matter of training, technique and tips.
The people that are very good at drawing always draw sketches. It's the easiest way.
If your not good at drawing grab a stock model and paint over it.
This is just like the time you were calling artists who work rough and use a lot of suggested detail bad ("blurry"), because you personally dont like it and cant model from it, despite it being a matter of taste.
There are benefits to sculpting for concepting such as you can usually get a better idea of masses and proportions in a 3d space when you work in 3d, and quite alot of things that look good in 2d dont look so hot when translated to 3d. And saying you dont have the flexibility with sculpting because of the base-mesh isn't really an issue any more with the advent of tech like sculptris.
Sketching is a great way for ideation and initial concepting but unless you are a concept artist it's just a means for you to focus your ideas before taking it to 3d. At that point reference research helps in fleshing out some ideas as well.
With the recent popularity of sculpting software it feels very organic to sometimes 3d-sketch.
At the end of the day, whatever means you use to flesh out your idea before you get with the technical side of modeling/sculpting, it's up to you.
As for Blaizer's comments, I think we've all seen too many lackluster zbrush sculpts lately. Software is so accessible these days that everyone things they can be an artist. Ultimately your software prowess is at the mercy of your artistic skill which comes with practice and jumping into complex software pipelines is often too early of a step to take for people who need to brush up on the fundamentals.
I'll be first to admit that I don't practice my drawing hand as often as I should. It's a great skill to have and it's very surprising how quickly one loses the touch without regular practice.
Take a look at a concept art collection and see how many 3d models you can find..
That's my thought anyway. Technology gives so much more options for speed and fluid process and why not exploit this if it increases efficiency and lets you get more ideas out.
I'm not entirly sure if I should take offence to that cos I'm not entirly sure what you mean
I think that we need to keep in mind that concepting for yourself is a whole different deal to concepting for others, if its for yourself I really dont think that it matters how you do it as long as it works for you.
Valandar, that "Excellent" of yours would be something very subjetive. I don't know traditional or 3d sculptors without pencil skills. The guys without tradional skills always do poor sculpts, and they have more difficulties in the procress of learning, and that's why they end learning some basics.
We have different points of views.
Err, elitist why?, because i say to draw is faster for concepting? i dont get you man, i am not in polycount? :poly141:
You must be holding a gudge or something. You should remember i put examples of artists that did "dirty" concepts and clear concepts, very solid (metal gear solid art was an example). A good artist not only makes rough and dirty concepts.
I assume for what you say that you must not be very good at drawing, and that you must have too many difficulties. For me is easier and faster to paint a 5 min sketch because i don't have problems of proportions, perspectives and masses. For that reason i have been saying all the time "If you are good at drawing, it's faster and better to use a pencil+paper to define your ideas".
Sculptris = triangles, at the end, if you want to finish a model, you will be forced to do a better sculpt (and not a concept sculpt), and then, retopo when it could be avoided easily. Sculptris is not a good thing for me.
The project planning is always very important. With a good and clear concept, you can see all the loops and topologies needed for your base mesh. The rest is sculpt, textures, and that's all.
And it's just my opinion, you don't need to enter against me. If you think you do things in a better way, better for you. Not all of us do the things in the same way.
Seth, Zbrush is only a tool, like mudbox, and whichever you use, what it matters are the skills, not the app you use.
It seems like you don't understand that traditional skills are very important.
Well, i exposed my opinion, and that's all, give or take.
oh I get you now.....someone didn't read to the bottom of my second post did they
It's a shame that you asume everyone who doesn't excell at 2D is in some way inferior in 3D, I can't draw for sticks, heres a few of my poor sculpts, I get by o.k.
http://sethnash.daportfolio.com/gallery/407003#3
Of course all opinions are valid, but in doesn't mean that you have to berrate others that dont share yours.
Sometimes it isnt just about being faster as well, as you can resolve a lot of problems with a simple sculpt that you will need to do a lot of drawings for. (for example shillouette can be easier to resolve with a quick sculpt)
Perhaps the oppositon i take to your posts is that your english doesnt seem like a first language, but when you state your opinion it sounds like you are claiming that it is the only way to work and in the process belittling everyone else. Or perhaps you just come here because you like telling everyone else that they are wrong?
Dont assume someones skill level based on their opinion.
Oh and this.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1120054&postcount=3114
to add to the example of kite's mean concept sculpts. i seen some of the guys at weta workshop concepting directly in clay. essentially thumbnailing in that medium. and fast. try telling them ' you're doing it wrong '
That's what I meant to say but failed.