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Using stuff from tutorials in your portfolio

polycounter lvl 11
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Christian Hjerpe polycounter lvl 11
Hi polycounters!

Whats the general view on using stuff from tutorials in your portfolio?
E.g following a tutorial for a higpoly model then making your own lowpoly and textures.
Of course stating that the hp is from a tutorial and which one etc.

I know its always better to come up with everything by yourself but do you guys think this is ok?

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  • Muzzoid
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    Muzzoid polycounter lvl 10
    Nope not really ok.

    It isnt a true representation of your skill. Put it this way, if you rock up and cant actually do the job without a tutorial, well you are boned then arent you.
  • Canadian Ink
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    Canadian Ink polycounter lvl 12
    I think a better bet would be to do the tutorial then take what you have learned and create something original with the skills that you have gleaned. Creating and original piece will stand out much more then one that says its from a tutorial and the repetition of creating it will reinforce what you have learned.
  • breakneck
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    breakneck polycounter lvl 13
    be creative, do you own stuff.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    I think a better bet would be to do the tutorial then take what you have learned and create something original with the skills that you have gleaned. Creating and original piece will stand out much more then one that says its from a tutorial and the repetition of creating it will reinforce what you have learned.

    Canadian Ink pretty much nailed it. Everyone has seen the major tutorials and hundreds models based off them, I've seen this modeled over a dozen times.

    2a5hjdw.jpg

    http://www.alex-legg.co.uk/environments/
    http://www.game-artist.net/forums/work-progress/6771-old-pillar-prop.html
    http://scribble-di-gook.com/images/sculpt.html
    http://www.isaacjohnson3d.com/oldpillar.html
    http://michaelmillanart.com/Eat3DPillarTutorial.html


    Do a tutorials, and then do something original but similar after that. You'll learn better that way.
  • motives
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    motives polycounter lvl 18
    Everyone is so hardcore..

    If you are happy with the model just put it up on the folio...
  • praetus
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    praetus interpolator
    The thing is, doing a tutorial doesn't actually prove you can do it on a regular basis. I can cook awesome stuff looking at a cookbook, but it doesn't mean I fancy myself a professional chef. Nor would someone be willing to hire me to run their restaurant. See how this carries over?

    Now that you've done it however, see if you can make other props, scenes, characters, etc using the knowledge you've learned. Just make sure it's something different and not something that fits into the same category, say, another damn pillar.
  • IronHawk
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    IronHawk polycounter lvl 10
    Shipped work and original stuff only is my rule.
  • Kevin Albers
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    Kevin Albers polycounter lvl 18
    If you put an object made from a tutorial in your portfolio, you are basically saying "I'm just starting out, and I just now learned this skill I'm showing off, so maybe I hardly even know how to do this", which is not a good message to send out, portfolio-wise.
  • Moosey_G
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    If you put an object made from a tutorial in your portfolio, you are basically saying "I'm just starting out, and I just now learned this skill I'm showing off, so maybe I hardly even know how to do this", which is not a good message to send out, portfolio-wise.

    ^^^THIS^^^

    In the end, it doesn't matter whether or not you really like, it's sending a negative message of novice-ness to the person viewing your portfolio. Also, if you did the tutorial very well, I'm sure you can easily apply the theories you've learned (which is the point of the tut) into other works!
  • Mark Dygert
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    I look at tutorials like I look at class assignments.

    Its probably the first time you've done that particular thing and the first time people do anything it normally comes out looking like ass. Even if it doesn't you will do it faster and better the next time. So why not do it again but this time do something different and original?

    It wouldn't be "practice" if you only did it once...
  • TomDunne
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    TomDunne polycounter lvl 18
    I say look at this in reverse and pretend you're the one doing the hiring for a game studio. Would YOU want to hire a guy who shows you he's still using tutorials?
  • Autocon
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    Autocon polycounter lvl 15
    TomDunne wrote: »
    I say look at this in reverse and pretend you're the one doing the hiring for a game studio. Would YOU want to hire a guy who shows you he's still using tutorials?

    You messed up here. It should be.

    If you were a hireing manager would YOU want someone whos only work is copied from a tutorial?



    As someone who is doing the hiring for a company you would hope they were smart enough to know that you, nor anyone can know everything and using tutorials to constantly learn and improve is an invaluable asset in an employee compared to someone who gets the job and dosnt improve on there own at all.

    This dosnt mean showing the tutorial work you did in your folio, but following them, learning the information from different peoples work flows/techniques is a great thing.
  • poopinmymouth
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    poopinmymouth polycounter lvl 19
    If you put an object made from a tutorial in your portfolio, you are basically saying "I'm just starting out, and I just now learned this skill I'm showing off, so maybe I hardly even know how to do this", which is not a good message to send out, portfolio-wise.

    Exactly. Plus how often is your first attempt at something any good? A tutorial is for showing you how the process works. It needs to be repeated 10 more times before you're going to be starting to come into your own, skill-wise.

    I think as a blanket rule, no portfolio should have school assignments or tutorials in it. Everything should be 100% original and created on your own, preferably as the 5th or more asset of that type you've made in your 3d life.

    Plus, it speaks to laziness. If you can't go and make a 2nd version of something you tried a tutorial of, how are you going to work on a 3 year title where you have to do hundreds of similar items.
  • Disco Stu
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    I dont even recreate tutorials while watching them, dont see any sense in that.
    I just want to see how they do it, isnt that the idea behind these dvd´s? ;)
  • almighty_gir
  • James9475
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    If you're doing a tutorial, its probably the first time you've used a technique.

    Nothing that is a first try with a new technique should be in your portfolio, regardless of any other issues to do with using tutorial work.
  • TomDunne
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    TomDunne polycounter lvl 18
    Autocon wrote: »
    You messed up here. It should be.

    If you were a hireing manager would YOU want someone whos only work is copied from a tutorial?



    As someone who is doing the hiring for a company you would hope they were smart enough to know that you, nor anyone can know everything and using tutorials to constantly learn and improve is an invaluable asset in an employee compared to someone who gets the job and dosnt improve on there own at all.

    This dosnt mean showing the tutorial work you did in your folio, but following them, learning the information from different peoples work flows/techniques is a great thing.

    I originally wrote a longer post explaining that, but I didn't think it made the point as well. I don't think the concern is about not learning, but in showing that your portfolio has moved past what you've just learned. Does that make sense?

    Basically, if a guy is showing me great work that's taken directly from a bunch of tutorials, the only thing I know for sure is that he's great at following those tutorials. I'd want to see those skills he's learned using original work, so I know he's capable of doing great work without help.

    Using Riki's Old Damaged Pillar as an example, it's basic content produced at a high level. I'd expect every environment artist worth his salt can produce that kind of content without having to refer to an instructional DVD. But including that work in your portfolio doesn't tell me you've learned how to apply those skills on your own.
  • Mark Dygert
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    I see your point and I'll tack on two of my own.

    There isn't always a set design or chunk of concept art for every little prop. Just following a tutorial tells me nothing about your ability to be creative and come up with interesting props that fit whatever environment.

    Portfolio fatigue. "Oh come on, another damaged pillar? At least this one doesn't look like a meat log"
  • Jeremy Lindstrom
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    Jeremy Lindstrom polycounter lvl 18
    I'd suggest if you 'do' want to use a 'tutorial' and put it in your portfolio use Adam's guide and make it a story a scene which then it becomes one prop. Try to make it your own, instead of 'focusing' it as HEY LOOK EAT3D Damaged pillar you have an underground car park, that's got lights out, (OH NOESS PILLARS), a couple cars on fire, dirt and debris everywhere like some serious shit has gone on down there, the pillar then becomes a piece of the picture and not the picture itself. You have to make it look like it belongs in your portfolio. What did you do to make this your own? is it just a tool in your arsenal or is it your whole arsenal. Were you able to make it look like part of the scene instead of a (love it vig) meat log standing on end in a parking lot?

    Could be smoking something here, but just try to make it look as if it's not a tutorial. Or change it up and make it a jersey barrier seen tons of those too.. :)
  • shotgun
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    shotgun polycounter lvl 19
    psy, there is nothing wrong with anything u put online. what kind of statement its making is bullshit. u'r in a certain level, show the best u've got. thats it.

    consider ur website a gallery showing stuff u do. fuck portfolios. if ur work is good enuf ull get hired for it. if not - u wont. there's no point in hiding ur true ability.
  • ebagg
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    ebagg polycounter lvl 17
    If you cannot show that you have skills to make awesome art outside of following the steps in a tutorial, you should not be hired as a professional artist, regardless of medium.
  • praetus
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    praetus interpolator
    shotgun wrote: »
    consider ur website a gallery showing stuff u do. fuck portfolios.

    I'm pretty sure a gallery of images to show in the hopes of getting work, is exactly what a portfolio is. Perhaps my details are sketchy.

    I can't tell you how many people I've seen post images from the eat3D tutorials or the Joan of Arc for character modeling. Every time I see one of these creep into the forums I cringe unless it is literally someone just starting out. And that being said, even if you are just starting, don't throw one of these into your website.

    We've all seen these which makes me think that the people in charge of hiring have seen even more. Take these tutorials and make awesome art that it original and sets you apart from the hundreds of other people vying for the same job.
  • danr
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    danr interpolator
    Praetus - indeed. When you sit and wade through hundreds of portfolios in only a few days, you realise just how many artists are comparable in terms of skill level and 'stuff they do'

    You tune yourself to do two things :

    To catch that one single standout

    And - and this is the relevant one here - to pretty much automatically throw out dozens. You develop a mental list of criteria for the bin, and it can take mere seconds for it to kick in.

    I don't think the topic under discussion is a major-major feature of this list - there are much worse, oh dear god there are worse - but its on it.

    No, the 'statement' you make is most definitely NOT bullshit. Pull out the 'your portfolio repels jobs' thread. Not bullshit.
  • shotgun
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    shotgun polycounter lvl 19
    the bullshit is the fact there's even a statement. its this pretence that has become so embedded in any aspiring artist' workflow that it distracts them from the main goal - which is simply doing stuff and naturally getting better at the process. all they care is "the portfolio". fuck that. just make stuff u enjoy and post it and share it. once u'r good enuf u'll get hired.

    if all u have to offer is tutorial stuff, then u know u'r in tutorial learning phase, what's the point of hiding it? u shouldnt even consider having a portfolio, that's just pretence. when u'r work is good enuf and ppl want to pay u for it, then the "amateur" gallery naturally turns into a "portfolio". u dont make a statement "im a pro" and act like one. u become one.
  • Moosey_G
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    More or less I think shotgun has a great point, you need to grow out of that tutorial phase first.
  • Christian Hjerpe
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    Christian Hjerpe polycounter lvl 11
    Sorry for my late reply, been away the whole weekend.

    I agree with what all of you guys say, putting something on your site thats basically is just a 3dmodel made by following a step by step vid isnt really showing your skills.

    But I think it might be ok sometimes, if you folow a tutorial to create just a 3d model and then make your own lowpoly and textures it shows that you can optimize meshes for use in-game and create textures.

    I´ve seen people using the the sdk goblin head to show of their textures, isnt this pretty much the same?

    @Jeremy I actually made a jersey barrier after watching Rikis pillar dvd =)
  • praetus
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    praetus interpolator
    That's somewhat a grey area I think. People aren't really following a tutorial for the goblin sdk though. They're creating their own texture form scratch much like making mod skins back in the day for games like Quake II. Also, just because someone features something here does not always mean they put it front and center on their site.

    For me personally, I have a setup on my site specifically for WIP images for the forums. There's a ton of stuff I've made in the past that you would never see "featured." As a general rule I don't put something on my main site unless it is completed. I guess it just comes down to what you're comfortable with and what you want your site to focus on telling about you.
  • JordanW
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    JordanW polycounter lvl 19
    Why do people follow tutorials exactly? I mean, couldn't you follow the tutorial but make a slightly different object? Like if it's a tut for a concrete pillar, make a concrete wall/corner/set or something? All the techniques would still apply but at least you wouldn't end up with the same cookie cutter model everyone's seen before.
  • Frump
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    Frump polycounter lvl 12
    JordanW wrote: »
    Why do people follow tutorials exactly? I mean, couldn't you follow the tutorial but make a slightly different object? Like if it's a tut for a concrete pillar, make a concrete wall/corner/set or something? All the techniques would still apply but at least you wouldn't end up with the same cookie cutter model everyone's seen before.

    I ask myself the same question every time I see those pillars or a thread talking about them. It makes no sense to me. There's nothing gained from making it exactly the same as opposed to somewhat unique. It's puzzling.

    Anyone who has done it want to weigh in on why you did the exact pillar from the video or other tutorial model?
  • Wahlgren
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    Wahlgren polycounter lvl 17
    Probably because they're afraid to loose track of what they're doing.
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    JordanW wrote: »
    Why do people follow tutorials exactly? I mean, couldn't you follow the tutorial but make a slightly different object? Like if it's a tut for a concrete pillar, make a concrete wall/corner/set or something? All the techniques would still apply but at least you wouldn't end up with the same cookie cutter model everyone's seen before.

    Yeah, I don't know why people do this. Comes across as a lack of imagination. If I see one more Ak reproduced from racers tut...:poly122: ;)

    I think its kinda iffy to show stuff completed from a tutorial when you are a modeller/rigger, but I think it's OK for animation. Chances are you picked up some invaluable advice from an animation vet in the process, so I think its ok in that instance.
  • Yozora
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    Yozora polycounter lvl 11
    Its pretty easy to understand why some people would do it. Just think of Lego or gundam or any other hobby for crafting miniature models with step by step guides.
    I think you can apply the same kind of mentality with making 3d as well, the process of completing the tutorial "correctly" can give a sense of achievement.

    Sure, making something original gives a greater sense of achievement but that's not the point :) The point is that they enjoyed doing it!
  • Tumerboy
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    Tumerboy polycounter lvl 17
    Do a tutorial, then take what you learn and use it on something of your own creation.
  • poopinmymouth
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    poopinmymouth polycounter lvl 19
    shotgun wrote: »
    the bullshit is the fact there's even a statement. its this pretence that has become so embedded in any aspiring artist' workflow that it distracts them from the main goal - which is simply doing stuff and naturally getting better at the process. all they care is "the portfolio". fuck that. just make stuff u enjoy and post it and share it. once u'r good enuf u'll get hired.

    if all u have to offer is tutorial stuff, then u know u'r in tutorial learning phase, what's the point of hiding it? u shouldnt even consider having a portfolio, that's just pretence. when u'r work is good enuf and ppl want to pay u for it, then the "amateur" gallery naturally turns into a "portfolio". u dont make a statement "im a pro" and act like one. u become one.

    Anyone posting tutorial made stuff in their portfolio is showing that they DO NOT ENJOY the 3d process, because if they did, they would have made at least 10 more better objects since the tutorial that would then be online.

    Having a tutorial object points to one or more of the following:
    1. doing the least you have to do (why didn't you do the process again after with something new and "yours)
    2. lack of creativity (couldn't you follow the tutorial but make your own asset?)
    3. no deeper thinking skills. (not thinking about how many times someone at a company has seen the same object, what it says about you, etc)

    There are literally zero pros to having tutorial objects in your portfolio, none. If you are asking how many objects or characters you should have, etc, these are just the wrong questions, because it shows you think there is some kind of formula that can be followed that will result in a job. Like shotgun said, if this is your actual passion, you'll be making so much stuff you'll need to chop OUT stuff from your portfolio, and first time objects made following a tutorial will be the first you throw away. I know the few times I followed a tutorial when I first was learning 3d programs, I would have never dreamed of showing anyone, because I knew they were throw away exercises, and that by having every step laid out for me, there really wasn't anything of my own to even show someone else, anything they liked was more because of the tutorial writer than myself.
  • amotaf
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    I dunno I'm just a rank noob myself so maybe I'm not one to talk but I don't do the tutorial I just watch it with a pen and paper and take notes like you would with a lecture at Uni. Once I've grabbed most of the techniques he or she has used then I simply try and replicate them with my own stuff or amalgamate them into my skill set.

    Like for instance the Eat 3d Unreal kit one where the dude shows you how to set up that church or whatever I didn't even open the scene files I just watched what he did. I made a few notes and wrote down some of the hints and tips and tried it on something that I made.

    Or with the Racer445 tut I didn't make the AK alongside him I just watched what he did, reflected on the methods he used and then assimilated as much as I wanted to into my own arsenal.

    I've got quite a few notebooks with different tips and tricks for different programs I messed with it's just a pity the quality of my art hasn't followed suit hehehhe but that's just me I think the method is sound though.
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    amotaf wrote: »
    I dunno I'm just a rank noob myself so maybe I'm not one to talk but I don't do the tutorial I just watch it with a pen and paper and take notes like you would with a lecture at Uni. Once I've grabbed most of the techniques he or she has used then I simply try and replicate them with my own stuff or amalgamate them into my skill set..

    Hmm that's a great tip. Do this people. And I agree with you Amotaf, dunno if I've ever opened source files on any of the DVD's I've got...
  • amotaf
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  • DrunkShaman
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    DrunkShaman polycounter lvl 14
    Pzychaoz wrote: »
    Hi polycounters!

    Whats the general view on using stuff from tutorials in your portfolio?
    E.g following a tutorial for a higpoly model then making your own lowpoly and textures.
    Of course stating that the hp is from a tutorial and which one etc.

    I know its always better to come up with everything by yourself but do you guys think this is ok?

    After reading the entire thread and based on my personal opinion.

    You shouldnt use the tutorials that you have done for your portfolio.
    Reason being; by doing that you are simply calling someone elses work as yours and attempting to earn a credit for it. Tutorials are just walk-throughs that helps you firmly understand the concept of the subject.

    What you can do is practice and learn how to use the contents the tutorial teach, and form your own NOT SO RELATED TO THE ORIGINAL CONTENT OF THE TUTORIAL. By doing that you can do a comparison to find your mistakes and be off track from the tutorials and start your own thing to create your portfolio.

    Also, take notes while you learn from the tutorials or follow up on the book tutorials, helps you remember some what how it was done, so that when you are following up with the tutorial it wouldnt be hard for you to do so, instead it would give you a firm understanding of it.


    EDIT: Assuming that you are a newbie to this realm, I strongly suggest you should start with the essentials of the 3d program that you wish to work with.

    Learn to take notes,

    Practice,

    Practice,

    learn some moar,

    practice.

    Once you are comfy with your doings, start sketching roughly and modeling them.

    EDIT2: If you wish to ask such questions pm someone with alot experience and know enough to answer you correctly.

    EDIT3: Those who think that the tutorial contents are legit for the portfolio, please kindly fuck off. They wouldnt accept that unless they are in the uber dier need for a 3d artist.

    kthxbie:)
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