Using video games to teach...
polycounter lvl 12
Hi, I’m a UK game design student currently working on my dissertation as part of my BA (Hons) degree, my dissertation title is Digital Game Based Learning (DGBL) in Education and I was hoping to hear the opinions and views from UK game developers about using video games to teach. I would appreciate feedback from anyone really, I'm aware this site is visited by a wide range of countries so feel free to post even if you're not from the UK. If you have any knowledge or experience with using or creating digital games to teach then please feel free to contribute your thoughts on the subject, if you haven’t any experience with the medium I’d be interested to hear what you think about the possibility of using digital games to teach.
One of the main issues with DGBL which has led me to post here on this forum is that educators and game developers do not work together to create games, this does not happen as commercial game developers go where the money is, right now high quality games are being produced only for entertainment. This ongoing forum thread will hopefully serve as a basis for the collective attitudes and opinions of using DGBL in mainstream education.
I will be asking teaching professionals their perspective on another forum to see what the current general understanding and feelings towards DGBL are as well. With the collected views from the various online forums I hope to be able to construct my own questions and findings on bridging this gap between educators and industry, it may also allow me to have a more local understanding of thoughts towards DGBL. Since most of the research into DGBL has been conducted abroad, receiving first hand opinions on the matter from UK educators might help to cast a new light on my thoughts of DGBL within this country.
I welcome any contribution to this discussion, whether or not you have had experience with DGBL, I would appreciate thoughts from all, thank you.
Steven Cronin
**EDIT** Sorry about posting too much last time, I can ramble incoherently for a while sometimes XD
Here's a link to the same post on Game Artisans and an educational forum for those of you who would like to see other responses:
http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13103
http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/p/389936/5371279.aspx#5371279
One of the main issues with DGBL which has led me to post here on this forum is that educators and game developers do not work together to create games, this does not happen as commercial game developers go where the money is, right now high quality games are being produced only for entertainment. This ongoing forum thread will hopefully serve as a basis for the collective attitudes and opinions of using DGBL in mainstream education.
I will be asking teaching professionals their perspective on another forum to see what the current general understanding and feelings towards DGBL are as well. With the collected views from the various online forums I hope to be able to construct my own questions and findings on bridging this gap between educators and industry, it may also allow me to have a more local understanding of thoughts towards DGBL. Since most of the research into DGBL has been conducted abroad, receiving first hand opinions on the matter from UK educators might help to cast a new light on my thoughts of DGBL within this country.
I welcome any contribution to this discussion, whether or not you have had experience with DGBL, I would appreciate thoughts from all, thank you.
Steven Cronin
**EDIT** Sorry about posting too much last time, I can ramble incoherently for a while sometimes XD
Here's a link to the same post on Game Artisans and an educational forum for those of you who would like to see other responses:
http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13103
http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/p/389936/5371279.aspx#5371279
Replies
Just read the last two paragraphs, everything else is semi useless to their target...
Sir if you wish to ask our opinion about it, you really didnt have to write entire chapter to ask this.
In my Opinion (IMO) <.<
One should really understand how general game programming works before even considering taking ref from the original game.
It is understood that we indeed take the ref and study it from other games when we are known to the basic of the game. Works better in my opinion.
If you wish to learn more about game development by looking at the other games than I'd suggest you should go to xna.com. Download C# Express.net, download XNA, Download DirectX SDK and download one of their 2d or 3d games. Than open their source codes in the C# Express.net. Read everyline and use msdn.com to search and understand what it is, how it was used, what it does, etc.
my 2 cents.
EDIT: That is if you really wish to learn the basic level of game development. After that, ofcourse you will know how it works and shouldnt have problem teaching it using any programming language, any 3d modeling software, and any strategy.
The real potential is in the psycological analysis of the player. Games are interactive. They can adjust to input from the player. And they allow the creator to track an incredible amount of data pertaining to the user's actions. It would be so easy to develop tools for psycological profiling using existing gaming genres.
I think that in most situations, it is going to be incredibly hard to replace real life experience with a digital solution. For example...when I was in high school, I "disected" a frog on a computer. I'm quite certain that somebody disecting an animal in person will have more knowledge of the inner workings than I did. Eventually these E-Learning games turn into videos with multiple choice quizzes, like Richard Kain said.
However, there is definitely a place for these when an interactive environment is the best/only way to be exposed to certain subjects. An interacting learning program might be a good way to train the military before putting them in a foreign country. It might be a good way to teach children about ecosystems in a different country.
Still, I don't see this type of learning to ever be possible without the use of conventional education right beside it.
The games weren't really instructional themselves though. They were just a way to get us to drill on the stuff we were already learning. It did seem to be good practice though. Everyone could move along at their own pace, but the games made sounds and stuff when you reached a new level, which seemed to motivate the kids to keep up or get ahead of their peers. Unlike regular quizzes or hand-raising stuff, everyone could be doing the problems at once with immediate feedback and without any "real-world" pressure to do well.
There were some similar things in middle school too, but only for math, and it was like a "if you finish your classwork early" thing. The technology had advanced a little by then though, so the games themselves were a little more fun. There was something about a bee going through a maze and having RPG-ish math battles with creatures in the maze. And we played the Oregon Trail sometimes in computer class (we had a computer class) which really didn't teach anybody anything.
I played Carmen San Diego, Math Blaster, and Reader Rabbit at home sometimes when I was really little. I ended up doing well in English and Reading in school, but I'm still bad at math. I don't know if there's any relation.
THIS! I think it really helped me. And didnt feel like learning to type one bit
I think for a typing application it did a great job, thanks for your comment
Yeah I agree about that, I wasn't thinking so clearly when I posted it, I've shortened the main question now to much more of a question rather a lecture.
As for the rest of your comment I think you may have misunderstood what my original post was about, I posted this not to critique current attempts at DGBL, which I think is what maybe you saw me doing? I simply want to see DGBL being used as part of mainstream education and as part of this thread was looking for the opinions of what other game developers think of using games to teach. Thanks for your comment nonetheless, much appreciated
http://www.gamesforchange.org/
I agree, sorry about that, I've edited it now, hopefully this thread will get some good conversation going now
Well noted, it's been cleaned up now
The educational games I played when I was a child were so boring and unentertaining that I just tabbed to a game when my parents weren't watching. To make an educational game successful it really needs to keep the attention of the user at all times.
On the other hand I think a virtual world game set in places like the ocean or jungles could be really good for people to interact with the environment and learn about animals and creatures that live there. Maybe selecting certain animals pops up a box showing anatomy or general facts.
Hope this helps,
Jay
Age & Perception.
The kinds of games you seem to be referring to sound like the Edutainment games of the 90's, and what you say about them is true, these seemingly were designed by academics who thought they could develop games to teach, the end result tended to be a game which was a lot of the time educationally sound but stunted in terms of gameplay. This highlights the importance of my original (now updated) post that educators and game developers need to work together to get the best of both worlds.
I like your idea of the learning potential of games being in the psychological analysis of the player, and it is easy to incorporate into games but are you suggesting these games stay in retail to both entertain and teach? Not to be used in the context of education? Because ultimately I see games having a more prominent role in education, if not todays video games, maybe some sort of future digital interactive medium, thanks for your insight, much appreciated
Sounds great, is there collaboration between educators and the development team when creating these games? When games are released is the educational content monitored in anyway? To ensure content hasn't been sensationalised or simplified in favour of better gameplay?
Oh yeah, wherever first hand learning can occur I think it should, as you also mention wherever first hand experiences are'nt possible then games or simulations can be the next best thing.
I agree that games won't replace conventional education, from all the reserach I've done I think it should be used to aid traditional methods, especially in areas where traditional pedagogy struggles more. Thanks a lot for responding
Thanks for the comment, I agree with everything you said but I found that the 'earn play time' idea is a little silly as by enabling this mechanic you are automatically alienating the educational questions as being a negative aspect, this is especially heightened when if you fail you can't play the 'normal' or fun game. This only makes the educational package an irritation to the person playing, however, I do like the idea of rather than making a full educational game some sort educational package that can be integrated into the game experience be enabled, how or what that is I'm not sure right now but there is something there, thanks again for your opinion
Maybe it's because I'm a little tired and my minds gone blank but it doesn't sound like you had a bad experience with using DGBL, no doubt I'll end up reading this again soon and have to ask you another question! XD
Thanks for your insight
Thanks for your reponse Vig, I noticed you removed a lot of your answer, I've only had the time to respnd now and I never got to read it before you deleted it so I can't say for sure what exactly you mean by age and perception. Doh!
If I had to guess I'd imagine you suspect that there is a age gap between educators and game developers and thus a large difference in the perception each other has of games? Thanks again for answering as you did, I ramble on too so don't worry about talking on my thread, I'm all for it!
Yes. Basically we are given a contract to work on a specific course, and we have contact with experts in that given area who oversee everything, and make sure its up to their standards for learning.
No worries
Not really, it ends up going the other way. The learning aspect takes priority over the game aspect, so typically the design of gameplay has to revolve around learning...typically this means that gameplay will take a hit before they simplify the learning aspect.
But seriously, I fully support the idea. I wrote my High School English Disscursive essay on the topic of 'Do games encourage children to be violent?' or something along those lines and I believe one of the things I covered was: Simple rules can be learn by children as soon as they enter the game. Rules such as 'Fire = bad' can be learned and once the child understands this they will know not to go near this element of the game. The child then seeks out another way to get around this obstacle and is therefore, I think, learning problem solving skills.
That's not exactly what I wrote but only what I remember.
Thanks for your reply, much appreciated