High to low poly Xm8 rifle WIP

tdunlavey · Feb 2010

Hey everyone. This is my first post here on Polycount. I'm currently in the process of making a game-res model of an Xm8 Machine gun, and would really appreciate some feedback on what i've got so far.

I started by modeling the high-res asset, then modeled the low poly model around my high poly. My next step, after getting the low poly model finalized, is to layout uvs, and produce a transfer map in Max to create the Normal for the low poly. Any suggestions, comments or critiques are pleasantly welcomed

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Low Poly Model WIP screens:

Gallows · Feb 2010

Looking pretty good so far, there's a few loops that could be taken out all together though, and I think you could still pull off a rather nice low poly mesh without them. Mainly on the rear of the gun, and right below the handle. I'd say just experiment and see what you can do without. Also with some of those cylinders, you can cut those caps those caps down by re-routing a bit of the geometry. But other than that it's looking pretty good.

Here's a little tutorial from http://racer445.com that's pretty useful.

tdunlavey · Feb 2010

Thanks for the feedback, Gallows. I thought there might be a few too many edge loops near the rear of the stock. Nice link too.

As far as the cylinder thing goes, I don't think that would actually save enough faces to make it worth it:

I only save two tri's doing it this way, and also lose the 'rounded' look of the scope's glass eyepiece.

I guess I should've mentioned that it's sitting right around 5k tri's at the moment. Any other suggestions?

Gallows · Feb 2010

Is it going to be a view model for a usable weapon or just a basic prop?

PredatorGSR · Feb 2010

Yea, if you're going to be using the center point for an actual purpose, leave it in. But otherwise, it is just useless polys, and you should never have useless polys. Depending on the model, it adds up, if you have a armored car with 16 wheels, thats 32 tris, and while it might not seem like a lot, thats 32 tris you can use to make a cylinder that's right in the front of the player less faceted, or add some bolts somewhere. The point is every poly you save is a poly you can use somewhere else.

tdunlavey · Feb 2010

It's going to be usable weapon model, not just a prop. But, you both have valid points.

@Predator - I definitely see your point. I only need the point in two of my cylinders, the ones in the scope, the others can be changed. It does add up, but in this case, not to very much. I appreciate the guidance!

tdunlavey · Feb 2010

Hey, someone recently suggested that I model the indents where where the gun breaks apart into my low-poly, what do you guys think?

Ghostscape · Feb 2010

that really ought to work just fine as normal map detail. Small details like that are where normal maps shine.

Goat Justice · Feb 2010

Normal maps are usually quite good at creating indents since they contribute less to the silhouette than parts that project from the models surface. For the seam that curves to run down the handle, especially, I can actually see where a normal map might give a smoother result than faceted geo. I'd put any extra polys into actually creating the doodads that stick up from the surface, especially if you plan to use it as a 1st person weapon which will be seen from a rather extreme perspective.

throttlekitty · Feb 2010

It's a pretty beveled inset, and would work just as well as a normal map. Looking hot though!

tdunlavey · Feb 2010

Thanks for the input guys. That's basically what I thought. I should have the normal map at least somewhat finished before bed time tonight

. Just laying out the uvs now.

Rang3r1 · Feb 2010

Back of the main stock, there you shouldn't need to have a single vert in the middle, I would connect them across, but that is just me.

Looks great, hoping to see how well it turns out.

tdunlavey · Feb 2010

Ok, so here's my uv work, and an extremely rough normal map baked in Max running in the UDK. Still has quite a ways to go. I'm still debating what texture resolution to use as well. Right now, everything fits into a 1024 X 512 Map, which is pretty efficient, but may not be able to hold the amount of detail that I'm looking for... What do you guys think?

pior · Feb 2010

careful with the not-so vertical UV edges. Straightening them might give you better texture downscaling without artifacts.

vahl · Feb 2010

go 2048*1024 dude

tdunlavey · Feb 2010

vahl wrote: »

go 2048*1024 dude

I'm glad you suggested it... I'm so tempted to, I think this is most likely the size I'll go for.

@ Pior - thanks for the tip, I hadn't thought of that before.

mLichy · Feb 2010

2048 on anything is redonkulous. I would say 1024x512 at highest. Depends on the game though, but even still. TV's can't even utilize a 2048 map properly.

tdunlavey · Feb 2010

Thanks Matthew (looked at your portfolio, nice work). I'm going to start w/ a 2048*1024, then shrink it down if need be. I know a lot of the UT3 maps are 2048*2048, but then again, that's epic for ya!

I dunno about tvs not being able to use them though. I mean, they can't view a full 2048 texture at one time, at full res, but a 2048's still gonna be crisper than a 1024 when you get real close to something in-game.

BUT, 2048 is pretty big for a gun... maybe I should rearrange the uv's to fit in a full 1024X1024...

EarthQuake · Feb 2010

2048x2048 or 2048x1024 is most definately NOT nuts for a first person weapon in a shooter, those are pretty much standard resolutions in games these days.

If its a FPV weapon, in most games it isn't simply a gun or just another proper, it IS THE character in the game, its how you interactive with the world, and its the most important character in the game in most cases. The thing that will always be on the screen, 100% of the time, why would you ever skimp on the single most important asset in a game?

ScoobyDoofus · Feb 2010

mLichy wrote: »

2048 on anything is redonkulous. I would say 1024x512 at highest. Depends on the game though, but even still. TV's can't even utilize a 2048 map properly.

Yeah, just to elaborate on what EQ said...

I'm guessing what you mean by this is you think that because the resolution of the HD video signal isnt 2048 in either dimension that anything approaching or beyond that is a waste.

However, what you're failing to consider is that portions of this model may fill the screen or be zoomed in on or otherwise be composed in a scene such that higher detail becomes necessary.

Ghostscape · Feb 2010

we used 1024x512's for the player's third person weapon in the last game I worked on, I definitely don't think that is too small for a FPS running in HD.

Besides, this is a portfolio piece, so aiming for higher specs helps to future proof it.
Additionally, it makes good sense to author high and scale down as needed during production. Besides, those higher-rez maps will always get used in marketing and pre-rendered video.

There is, or should be, imho, a disconnect nowadays between authoring the asset and what actually winds up in the game - technology is changing and memory budgets for a game are in flux until the game ships, its better to be able to easily adapt by crunching some textures down a power of 2 or rebaking to a smaller/new UV layout, etc.

The worst thing in the world is when you wind up authoring an asset and then later specs change and you find you could have made it more detailed.

tdunlavey · Feb 2010

Thanks for all the great feedback guys. Kinda turned into a battle of the resolutions there for a sec. I ended up going with the 2048*1024 for now. I don't think it's too big, and I definitely agree w/ you Ghost - aiming for higher specs for a portfolio piece is a great way to "future proof" it, that way I'm not re-doing the same project 4 months down the line, thanks for the good advice.

Here's the final bake from max, plus a quickly crazybumped specular map, with a little hint of AO as well. I'll be overlaying another normal map once I finish the diffuse color map of course, to get all those gritty little details (such as the gun logo, etc).

any suggestions are helpful. I'll be back soon with texture work!

tdunlavey · Feb 2010

Hey guys, it feels like awhile since I've posted an update. I'm in the process of finishing up the textures for this XM8, and would really appreciate some input! It still has a ways to go, and I haven't added any grunge or wear yet.

I should probably also say that I'm planning on texturing the clip and barrel similar to the shell ejector door on the side, and that long, scraped up piece just under the handle on the top of the gun.

Thanks!

tdunlavey · Mar 2010

Hey Guys, been working on re-vamping the 'ol website lately, would love some feedback on the finished Xm8 gun model (and on the site in general, lawl). It's still a wip, since the community and contact page don't work just yet...

MY PORTFOLIO

sneakymcfox · Mar 2010

Think about where your waring the matrial away, firstly most of this wepon is platic and therefore it simply isnt goind to scratch down to shiny white and the charging handle, well, theres almost no way you could knock it on anything let alone scratch off all the paintwork.

ivars · Mar 2010

Hey. Looks good but you've got some serious shading problems.

By looking at the normalmap I believe it might be that you're using crazybump to overlay some normalmap shapes or something. Seems like you've been using shape recognition which is causing gradients all over.

Could you post a version with the raw, unprocessed, baked normalmap?

tdunlavey · Mar 2010

I did use crazybump, good call. I took the baked normal map from max into crazybump to increase the intensity of the map. In the end, I did overlay a small piece of the diffuse map that I converted to normal map to get some more detail from my normal. The 'xm8' logo section was converted into a normal map, then overlayed on top of the original. But other than that, there's no overlaying of shapes. Here's the max baked normal, and screenshot to go w/ it.

Cap Hotkill · Mar 2010

Your Smoothing Groups looks wrong, I recommend you to recalculate the normals in a 80 Angle.

If you send me your Low poly in a PM or email i could take a look at it and see what's wrong.

ivars · Mar 2010

The biggest problem is not in your bake itself (even though there seems to be a few problem areas) it's in the ways you've post processed it. The colors in your baked normalmap have been calculated to match the exact difference in normal direction between your source- and target mesh. Any changes to that and shading errors will occur. Do not try to "boost" the effect, and in no way should you be converting your colormap to a normalmap and overlay it. That just doesn't make sense. Make a heightmap representing any additional detail you wanna add, like imprinted text, dents or scratches. Convert that to a normalmap and mix it with your baked normalmap.

High to low poly Xm8 rifle WIP

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