yea, i was thinkin bout posting this, but nothing has been confirmed yet by them...
still, i remember reading some interviews with the head honcho/s over there, and as I recall their plans sounded like they wanted to make the best more ambitious mmo ever dreamed of, and for a brand new studio... also, they've been working on this secret project for like 4 years now and we don't get to hear anything? Maybe the investors got worried about another DNF
Saw these guys in Austin GDC and spoke with Bill Petras, pretty good guy although I think I was placed on his shit list after calling him out for driving a Bimmer. Good luck to those who took the hit =(
Thats what you get for getting drunk Will. Not gona lie though, I did laugh pretty hard in my head when he said he drives a Bimmer right after you went off on them. Hilarity
Sad to hear though, seemed like they had some good ideas going for them, not to mention talent.
They had one of the best recruitment ideas I had seen: they gave out ipod nanos, custom engraved with each potential recruit's name, and a personalized message in MP3 form, all wrapped in multiple layers of boxes, each featuring some of their concept art.
Thats what you get for getting drunk Will. Not gona lie though, I did laugh pretty hard in my head when he said he drives a Bimmer right after you went off on them. Hilarity
Sad to hear though, seemed like they had some good ideas going for them, not to mention talent.
OOh and you're going to play mr innocent over here..haha
Well, now I don't feel quite so bad for not getting that job there after all...
Best of luck going forward there tho Gwot. I've got my fingers crossed for you.
Arg, this is balls. These guys were indeed awesome at GDC and took lots of time to critique us polycounters' and students' portfolios. They were also really optimistic about us getting better and showing them our portfolios again. Hell of an industry but I'm sure these guys will fall on their feet!
I've always thought making a huge title as a first game for a new studios has to be the stupidest gamble ever. Make something, anything, first, learn how you work as a team, pipelines, processes, people's strengths and weaknesses, how planning goes etc. Doesn't matter if you have millions of capital, all the rock stars you could lure with ipods or famous sci-fi writers/concept artists, etc, it's just stupid thinking the very first product will be made efficiently and end up quality.
Almost every studio that churns out quality top end products started smaller first. Just offhand, can anyone think of a brand new studio that turned out a first product that was on budget and sold really well as well as scored well?
EDIT: Oh, on second thought, I don't know anything about their budget, or if they were "on time", according to their publisher. Think there was some delays there.
Either way, it was a debut product that did very well.
First game that comes to mind is Torchlight, they did pretty much what you said poop. But who knows Red 5's motives or gambles, we really don't' know much about their unshipped title. A decent Chinese MMO could end up being ridiculously profitable.
Actually I'd say torchlight is an example opposite of what I'm saying. A small lower risk title on their way to the big MMO. They could easily have tried to make the MMO version their launch debut, and instead did the simpler single player to test the market waters, build brand recognition, and I'm sure they learned a ton, making the MMO process much smoother.
Also original HL is in no way comparable in scope or team size or budget to a blockbuster 5 year MMO, unless I'm really mistaken.
They had one of the best recruitment ideas I had seen: they gave out ipod nanos, custom engraved with each potential recruit's name, and a personalized message in MP3 form, all wrapped in multiple layers of boxes, each featuring some of their concept art.
It seems like a nice recruitment idea but from a business standpoint does this seem a little oppulant for a company that has not really been established? I can understand these sort of perks at companies like Valve,Blizzard,etc but Red 5? Not that i am agaisnt perks at a company but an unestablished company should also watch what it spends money on since productions costs for games now a days is so expensive.
My last company who went bankrupt offered alot of perks, we got paid gym,internet and a signing bonus of $1880 dollars for art workshops,conventions and anything in general that could make me a better artist. But i also wonder how much these perks accelerated the demise of the company and could holding back on such costs even have helped the company stay afloat enough time to sign the next project. We were a week or two from signing a 2 year project when we went under. Even worse for moral was having perk by perk stripped away as the financial situation became worse.
Im sorry to hear about all affected and i hope you land on your feet fast.
It seems like a nice recruitment idea but from a business standpoint does this seem a little oppulant for a company that has not really been established? I can understand these sort of perks at companies like Valve,Blizzard,etc but Red 5? Not that i am agaisnt perks at a company but an unestablished company should also watch what it spends money on since productions costs for games now a days is so expensive.
My last company who went bankrupt offered alot of perks, we got paid gym,internet and a signing bonus of $1880 dollars for art workshops,conventions and anything in general that could make me a better artist. But i also wonder how much these perks accelerated the demise of the company and could holding back on such costs even have helped the company stay afloat enough time to sign the next project. We were a week or two from signing a 2 year project when we went under. Even worse for moral was having perk by perk stripped away as the financial situation became worse.
Im sorry to hear about all affected and i hope you land on your feet fast.
This is actually a good idea. I remember the article about it when it happened, and they had crunched the numbers. If your goal IS to start up a new company with top notch talent, especially when they did before the economy tanked, you have to lure people away from their current places. They listed something like 40x the response rate of a normal cold call email system, and really, ipods aren't that expensive. The entire campaign might have cost 20k? That's nothing, a gamasutra ad is a few thousand. They got an insane response rate, and hired several of the recipients, and those that didn't answer right away, you better believe if their optionis changed a few months later they have an idea who they will call first.
I hope everyone lands on their feet. It's hard to read about a company that was able to accumulate so much talent and had to let some of it go. Best of luck to those effected I hope you find a way to keep on doing what you love and not just settle for the first thing that pays the bills. If that means taking a job that pays the bills and doing art for arts sake then awesome. I just hope this doesn't douse anyone's fire...
And hey look, Ben with insightful posts that I don't need to wear flame retardant gear to read, awesome. It's great when I don't have to muscle past the gag reflex when I agree with ya.
i confess i know nothing about the company, but there is a trend of "hire the very best people you can find, throw them in the room and then sit back and turn on the money counter after they come up with something awesome" and i guess in this instance doing that didn't work out so well. Although like I said I know nothing about them or how they did their business, just judging by how arrogant they were with their recruitment announcements.
I've always thought making a huge title as a first game for a new studios has to be the stupidest gamble ever. Make something, anything, first, learn how you work as a team, pipelines, processes, people's strengths and weaknesses, how planning goes etc. Doesn't matter if you have millions of capital, all the rock stars you could lure with ipods or famous sci-fi writers/concept artists, etc, it's just stupid thinking the very first product will be made efficiently and end up quality.
Almost every studio that churns out quality top end products started smaller first. Just offhand, can anyone think of a brand new studio that turned out a first product that was on budget and sold really well as well as scored well?
I agree with you Ben, but off hand I would say in terms of MMO's, Arena.net (not really a true MMO but....), Vigil, Realtime Worlds (APB hasn't shipped yet), Turbine, Mythic, 38 Studios (Not shipped yet), etc. These are all first games from a studio.
In terms of just big budget games, Media Molecule (I know Rag Dog Kung Fu was their first game, but that was still when they were still at Lionhead), Vigil (sorry, it is on my list twice), Eidos Montreal (nothing shipped yet, but 2 big budget games in development), etc.
Now the funny thing is, Vigil has been making (2) big games at the same time without ever shipping a title as a studio. Sometimes there are exceptions to the rule, but I agree that a studio's first title should be a learning experience.
Yeah the basic nono's for game studio's is your first game should never be a huge AAA game. No MMO's, basically nothing that needs over 30mill to get shipped. The other thing to look out for is releasing more than one AAA game a year from the same studio. That will always mean a lot of people are going to be loosing their jobs.
Replies
still, i remember reading some interviews with the head honcho/s over there, and as I recall their plans sounded like they wanted to make the best more ambitious mmo ever dreamed of, and for a brand new studio... also, they've been working on this secret project for like 4 years now and we don't get to hear anything? Maybe the investors got worried about another DNF
Sad to hear though, seemed like they had some good ideas going for them, not to mention talent.
OOh and you're going to play mr innocent over here..haha
Best of luck going forward there tho Gwot. I've got my fingers crossed for you.
http://kotaku.com/5458445/strange-things-are-afoot-at-red-five-studios
Fall on your ass. Land on your feet.
Almost every studio that churns out quality top end products started smaller first. Just offhand, can anyone think of a brand new studio that turned out a first product that was on budget and sold really well as well as scored well?
EDIT: Oh, on second thought, I don't know anything about their budget, or if they were "on time", according to their publisher. Think there was some delays there.
Either way, it was a debut product that did very well.
Also original HL is in no way comparable in scope or team size or budget to a blockbuster 5 year MMO, unless I'm really mistaken.
You're really mistaken.
Half-Life was a very ambitious project, and a blockbuster of its time. This wasn't 2010.
Well, I said it was a gamble, not impossible. I just think it's really stupid idea.
It seems like a nice recruitment idea but from a business standpoint does this seem a little oppulant for a company that has not really been established? I can understand these sort of perks at companies like Valve,Blizzard,etc but Red 5? Not that i am agaisnt perks at a company but an unestablished company should also watch what it spends money on since productions costs for games now a days is so expensive.
My last company who went bankrupt offered alot of perks, we got paid gym,internet and a signing bonus of $1880 dollars for art workshops,conventions and anything in general that could make me a better artist. But i also wonder how much these perks accelerated the demise of the company and could holding back on such costs even have helped the company stay afloat enough time to sign the next project. We were a week or two from signing a 2 year project when we went under. Even worse for moral was having perk by perk stripped away as the financial situation became worse.
Im sorry to hear about all affected and i hope you land on your feet fast.
This is actually a good idea. I remember the article about it when it happened, and they had crunched the numbers. If your goal IS to start up a new company with top notch talent, especially when they did before the economy tanked, you have to lure people away from their current places. They listed something like 40x the response rate of a normal cold call email system, and really, ipods aren't that expensive. The entire campaign might have cost 20k? That's nothing, a gamasutra ad is a few thousand. They got an insane response rate, and hired several of the recipients, and those that didn't answer right away, you better believe if their optionis changed a few months later they have an idea who they will call first.
And hey look, Ben with insightful posts that I don't need to wear flame retardant gear to read, awesome. It's great when I don't have to muscle past the gag reflex when I agree with ya.
That's not good.
Well the idea is that they lured them away with a good job and better salary, the ipod was to get the person to pay attention to the offer.
I agree with you Ben, but off hand I would say in terms of MMO's, Arena.net (not really a true MMO but....), Vigil, Realtime Worlds (APB hasn't shipped yet), Turbine, Mythic, 38 Studios (Not shipped yet), etc. These are all first games from a studio.
In terms of just big budget games, Media Molecule (I know Rag Dog Kung Fu was their first game, but that was still when they were still at Lionhead), Vigil (sorry, it is on my list twice), Eidos Montreal (nothing shipped yet, but 2 big budget games in development), etc.
Now the funny thing is, Vigil has been making (2) big games at the same time without ever shipping a title as a studio. Sometimes there are exceptions to the rule, but I agree that a studio's first title should be a learning experience.