BIG PROJECT - Short film - "Free Ticket"
polycounter lvl 9
Hi guys,
I know this isn't game art, but i think alot of it is transferrable.
Basically, i pretty much HAVE to finish, whether i like it or not because its my "Major Work" for my highs school multimedia course.
i'll be using 3ds max, vray to render, and after effects for post. I'm going for a pixar kind of look.
Here is my idea for the script:
http://home.samroberts3d.com/Major/Free%20Ticket%20Script.pdf
Here is my 30 minute concept for the main characters (imma 3d guy, not concept! hehe):
I know this isn't game art, but i think alot of it is transferrable.
Basically, i pretty much HAVE to finish, whether i like it or not because its my "Major Work" for my highs school multimedia course.
i'll be using 3ds max, vray to render, and after effects for post. I'm going for a pixar kind of look.
Here is my idea for the script:
http://home.samroberts3d.com/Major/Free%20Ticket%20Script.pdf
Here is my 30 minute concept for the main characters (imma 3d guy, not concept! hehe):
Replies
gunna sculpt or go the smooth sub-d route?
oh, peep dis shit too. i thought the style was badass, might inspire (it's coraline the movie) =D
link
If you can't get ahold of that you can always use the character studio biped, saves you a lot of time regarding bone placement/hierarchy and ik setup, but you would still have to setup a facial rig for example. If you google around you should also find free custom rigs which are pretty sophisticated, not sure if there are much working versions for 3dsmax 2010.
http://www.bradnoble.net/rigging/index.html
For Animation in general
this is a good read -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Animator%27s_Survival_Kit
[ame]
And i think it's called morph targets (where you do a bunch of different faces with diff expressions), prolly be easier yeah
I don't want to derail your thread, but I've got an example of something I worked on a few years back:
[ame]
The pilot has 1 blend shape and 2 bones. One to rotate his head and one to move his jaw. His arms are seperate objects parented to the body because I couldn't be arsed rigging them. He obviously not a brilliant character and doesn't have a great range of movement, but he works well enough. It's an example of how you can save yourself a lot of time and effort if you're smart about how you set your shots and the like.
Oh and try to have lots of camera shake and motion blur. The less people can see, the better they'll think what they're looking at must be.
mainly using top right for ref.
i'm an Environment artist and this is my first go at character work
i need topology crits and..stuff? haha
srsly
also, good luck *snickers*
edit:
what I mean is, you prolly have to start from the begining with the head.
because, that is just way too many polygons for sombody at your level to work with to try to get a good looking result.
less polygons will help you shape your character better, and when that is done, you subD it or whatever (after skinning..)
but yeah, that is just a mess.......
the changes we would want to make to that head, are gonna take you too much time to get done, because of the dense mesh..you would have to move a cluster of verts, and then go back and aling each one by itself again...teadius as all hell...
yeah, delete that and empty the trash bin..
start over, with lot less polyongs in mind
yeah, working with fewer polygons would prolly help man. Got this topo pic which i always liked. Don't forget the loop that goes around the nose and down under the mouth (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/874/polyregionsif6.jpg).
Then again you could always go the free sculptin route and work it all out in zb from a cube, tho doing something in the middle of that and sub-d would prolly work out best.
also here's some kchen sketch goodness. Gettin the basic shapes/forms/proportions of the head down = important... once you got those the rest should be heaps easier (both shifting the proportions to be crazy and detailing)
http://www.characterdesigns.com/index.php?sitepage=tutorials
*mars bar* =D
although i think my profile view is sorta good
you dont really need to be so anal about the loops, like from the nose and whatever..fuck that
everyone likes to comment about the need for perfect and clean edgeloops for animation, and refer to that ugly example picture some replies up..
I concider myself an animator (to the same extent anyone on this boar conciders themselfs a modeller I guess), and I say FUCK EDGELOOPS
as long as the mesh looks good, I have never had any problems (not related to skinning) with animating facials, on meshes that dont follow that very strickt example of having clean loops and shit.
the mesh you have now will do just fine.
the edges at the center of the mouth are kinda close together though, try spacing them out more evenly.
that goes for the nose and all the way around the skull as well..
and the loop around the eyesocket, or, actually, after that. like under the eye and around the cheekbone, those vertexes are also fairly too close together.
other than that I think you did a good job on the mesh, and only need to reshape it now to get the result youre after..
and I think you should stay the F away from sculpting apps for this one,
keep the meshes simple and "cartoony" without too many details, and you'll have a lot easier time getting this project............complete ... sorry, cant say that with a straight face ;D
well, waiting for your next post
There's alot to think about : size of scene, types of animation, lighting, effects, post production requirements, complexity of models and textures to name a few.
Before modelling anything I would write the story FIRST! Then break it into bite size chunks that represent the different parts. After this you will be able to create a storyboard which is essential...
After the storyboard comes the rough 3d scenes that represent scale and lighting values, if you can do all this you will be well on your way.
Much easier that way
then instead of working on his current mesh and with a workflow that is familiar to him,
he would have to sit down and learn a new program which has a totally different approach than maya/max, and learn how to sculpt..
and then export the result - which would be awful, into his 3d app and retopologize from there..
I've also drawn a rough storyboard for the first few scenes.... but i didnt think it was worth posting?
@bbob: that'd be a great and easy way if i was really great with zbrush, however im not that great but i've been getting some good advice from some other characters artists on msn and such...
@flow3d - thanks for your crits and advice. i'll be posting some progress later today.
UGLINESS WARNING - ENVIRONMENT ARTIST TRYING TO SCULPT A CHARACTER
looks better in front view, some wacky things going on in this 3/4ish
basically, some more defined planes of the head would help mebbe. Flatter face and more form around the cheek and the muscle that goes around the mouth definitley. And thicker lips couldn't hurt i guess :P
I'd prolly grab the move tool and pull the nose back in slightly (on a lower dlvl). Pull some more form on the outside edge of the face in 3/4 view too (negative space and all that crap)...
Skull could use a leetle proportional tweaking too but yeah, muchos improvment man (got any full body sculpts happening yet :P)
edit: keep in mind this is just a generic shaped head i drew over to help indicate form and 3d volume and crap, heads generally have more variation so grain of salt that up
However, whats with the Zbrush love?, of course Its essential to learn it to work at MOST studios these days and it also adds to a lot of realism in models. However, in this example and what Sampson appears to be trying to achieve here am I only one who thinks Zbrush is completely unnecessary to get this job done?
The style to me looks quite basic (from the concepts),so im thinking some kind of cell shading perhaps?
Not to mention the guy is on a DEADLINE, is treading ground he has stated he is not familiar with and im willing to bet hasn't got any idea how long things like rendering the whole animation and compiling/post processing will take, Vray,in my small amount of experience with it has amazing results but takes an age and a half to render.....
In essence, I feel advising the guy to learn a new program, change his work flow all while he stumbles into the pitfuls (and stress) of creating your first short on time and to deadline is abit much.
I say stick to what you know, you have plenty of time to make things look good but make sure you keep your time keeping in check and leave plenty of time for changing and rendering.
Learn Zbrush on other none deadline/essential projects.
Just my opinion
looking forward to progress Sampson.
John
no, no you are not
Sampson, What style is this going to be? I see it as a cartoon style so whats the point of making this realistic? Forget Zbrush, do the subD modeling like you started before and slap in a meshsmooth or Turbosmooth after rigging the models.
And if you are a Environment artist, start making some sample props for your scenes and also set up the lights and cameras that you wanted from your storyboard.
I am going start making a similar project as well and this topic is very informative right now. And I don't know that much as well.
I think i'll make some clothes for him today or something and get him looking "okay" for now.
I'll throw my vote in for the subdiv modelled characters though. With your current level of experience and the amount that you need to get done, I think you'd have a much easier time, coupled with what others have mentioned about suitability to tyhe style.
I could be wrong, but it looks like you might not have perspective turned on in zbrush (hit P). It's turned off by default.
with harsher lighting (shows more of my errors)
As Flow suggested, I see no reason for going zbrushing on him yet, especially if you are lacking experience. What I'd do was to focus on getting it right in max, and if you feel like you need to sculp, I found out that for the basic shapes, the build in sculper in Editable Poly works great as long as you got enough polygons.
Now, for your head(without having any big experience in either character art or anatomy) I think it lacks definitive shapes, like the the chin. Or if you're going the kind of stylized look, he needs a bit more hard edges around the definitive shapes. At the moment, it looks a bit too goey for my personal preference. Keep on rockin'
Is this a solo project? I would say go out and grab a character (and prefferably experienced anim) guy to help you out but may not be an option. Try sub-d'ing what you've got for some smoother forms, do a rough body and try putting all the elements together and see how it looks man.
Then you've at least got 'somthing'. You could lay in a more detailed character later if need be.
but the part that messed it all up, was when you had your head mesh all ready to go, but instead of starting to work on the rest of the character, you let yourself be suckered into using zbrush and whatnot to make normalmaps and shit you dont even need for your project!
so yeah, its been like 2 weeks now?
you should have at least both your characters modelled, textured (very simple even seeing the style you're going for..?) and rigged.
instead you've been learning a new app, a new workflow - and failed
so yeah,
I dont know when this assignment was supposed to be turned in but..
I'd say go back to the 2nd iteration of the head you had and continue working on a body!
I SUCK, but even I model a character, texture it and rig it in one day (two tops, seing as I play WoW a lot lately) .. so, 2 weeks is no excuse
i see your argument man, but i have not been working 8 hours a day, every day on this.
I can't imagine what that must look like. *shrug*
Sometimes I find myself remaking a head or a body two or three times before I am happy with it, and every time I learn something new about polyflow or just the general feel for shape. I have a long ways to go before I am at the point where I don't have to redo things, and I am sure even when I hit that point it will still take a lot of reworking to get things just right.
My point is, sure you picked a pretty ambitious project and I would suggest trying to think up a simpler story that requires less characters, but don't look at it as a failed experience, just take your models and think about how you can improve your next and you will always see improvements.
As for modeling, texturing, and rigging in a day, I am sure your models, textures, and animation are just top shelf quality /sarcasm. It can take weeks just for textures if you really want to make some portfolio material, hell, anyone can throw some stuff together, doesn't mean you can use it for anything in the long run.
Keep up the work, try to think up a project that requires less of a work load and to make up for your learning about modeling, try and highly stylize your models to hide your ability level. :thumbup:
into max and a render: