Colleges, Colleges, and more Colleges!
So recently I rejected by a school that I thought was perfect for me in every way. But now that I've been rejected I need to look for new schools to apply regular decision to. I have decided to make this thread because I need some help. I tried to keep it brief but that didn't end up happening. I think it is better to lay as much info as I can. So here it goes!
First I'm going to talk about what I'm looking for... and more importantly... what I'm not looking for. I'm look for a school that either has a game art program or a computer art program (not graphic design). I could also go with Computer Animation but from what I've found it seems like you spend the the first 2 year doing 2d animation. Not to mention that I'm not really interested in the Animation side of things. So if the program is labeled "Animation" I would like there to be a good amount of the 3d modelling courses.
Now this might make some of you think negatively of me but I'm not looking for a fine arts degree. The main reason is that I don't have too much experience in traditional art and I don't think I would get in. Freshman year all my teachers told me that I should get all of the required courses out of the way and then later I could start taking art class's... so really I didn't start taking art class's until this year. I do have a simple game art portfolio but a lot of schools only require a traditional art portfolio of 10-20 pieces. I probably have 10-20 pieces total. So I wouldn't be able to choose my "best" work. It would be more like "all" my work.
Location is also important to me. You will see below that all the schools I've listed are either in NYC or LA. This is sort of funny because the school I got rejected from was in Burlington VT. :P But anyway, I don't really want to got too far south unless it is on the West coast. It may sound funny but that is just the way I am. Also, outside of computer stuff and games I'm a huge mountain biker. I've been racing for a couple year now and it would be nice to have somewhere to ride within a couple hours drive.
Here are some of the places that are on my list so far.
School of Visual Arts NYC
Otis: School of Art and Design
Art Institute: LA
Parsons
Pratt
Here is also a website that helped me search. Note that the Game art section schools don't all have game art. Or at least I couldn't find the major listed.
http://www.aicad.org/undergrad.htm
So please, let me know what you think. I know I probably seem picky but I find it is better to just lay as much of what I'm looking for out now rather than getting a list of schools that I know am I'm not interested in. But it would be nice to hear where you guys went and more importantly, where you suggest.
Thank you!!!
First I'm going to talk about what I'm looking for... and more importantly... what I'm not looking for. I'm look for a school that either has a game art program or a computer art program (not graphic design). I could also go with Computer Animation but from what I've found it seems like you spend the the first 2 year doing 2d animation. Not to mention that I'm not really interested in the Animation side of things. So if the program is labeled "Animation" I would like there to be a good amount of the 3d modelling courses.
Now this might make some of you think negatively of me but I'm not looking for a fine arts degree. The main reason is that I don't have too much experience in traditional art and I don't think I would get in. Freshman year all my teachers told me that I should get all of the required courses out of the way and then later I could start taking art class's... so really I didn't start taking art class's until this year. I do have a simple game art portfolio but a lot of schools only require a traditional art portfolio of 10-20 pieces. I probably have 10-20 pieces total. So I wouldn't be able to choose my "best" work. It would be more like "all" my work.
Location is also important to me. You will see below that all the schools I've listed are either in NYC or LA. This is sort of funny because the school I got rejected from was in Burlington VT. :P But anyway, I don't really want to got too far south unless it is on the West coast. It may sound funny but that is just the way I am. Also, outside of computer stuff and games I'm a huge mountain biker. I've been racing for a couple year now and it would be nice to have somewhere to ride within a couple hours drive.
Here are some of the places that are on my list so far.
School of Visual Arts NYC
Otis: School of Art and Design
Art Institute: LA
Parsons
Pratt
Here is also a website that helped me search. Note that the Game art section schools don't all have game art. Or at least I couldn't find the major listed.
http://www.aicad.org/undergrad.htm
So please, let me know what you think. I know I probably seem picky but I find it is better to just lay as much of what I'm looking for out now rather than getting a list of schools that I know am I'm not interested in. But it would be nice to hear where you guys went and more importantly, where you suggest.
Thank you!!!
Replies
If you do go, I think some folks from Polycount have graduated from AI LA, I remember seeing that same shanty building from a bunch of them for a few semesters.
I got my job from my portfolio and networking through the guys here at Polycount. Had nothing to do with my degree whatsoever.
Good luck, if all else fails you have Polycount.
I suggest you do take some traditional art classes at a local community college (painting, sculpture, life drawing). If your really good at drawing people, it makes it 100x easier to sculpt and model people
What do you want to do in the games industry?
Thanks for the info. Right now I have a focus on environment art.
What this man said.
Consider design, architectural design, instructional design, etc. as possible fields of study.
All the things you need to learn what you want are available on the intertubes. The only thing college is good for (besides networking and emotional growth) is obtaining a piece of paper that says you are qualified to do 'x'.
You seem pretty set on school, it's not a bad idea, and the road for getting into the industry is different for everyone. In this day and age it's getting increasingly difficult to break into the industry without some kind of formal training. Game design and game art are becoming increasingly complex to the point it's hard to make a hobby of it as a game enthusiast and eventually be hired after going it solo. Some will say otherwise, but things have changed tremendously over just a few short years.
This tremendous rate of change is detrimental to school as well. I completely agree with you wanting to skip 2d animation, for example. While i can't stress how important the fundamentals of animation are, they can be taught in 3d as well, and the tremendous amount of tedium required to do 2d doesn't translate well into the tedium required to do 3d animation. I'd take messing with curve editors for hours any day over trying to draw hundreds of animation panels. This is just one example, you'll take various general ed classes, 2d drawing classes (storyboarding), all kinds of random courses that will help you in absolutely no way whatsoever with achieving your goal, in fact the majority of your time working towards a diploma will mean nothing towards getting a job if you don't take your own initiative at some point to focus on what matters. Most courses are a very expensive hurdles that will sap your energy that you could be spending on working on your portfolio.
Another issue i have with these schools is they force you to be a generalist. They will teach you every facet of game art, from animation, rigging, character creation, concept, and character modeling, whether you want to learn it or not. Exploration is nice, a lot of kids change majors, decide they love animation rather than environments, etc, etc. But once you're set on what you want to do, you're still forced to take these courses. I took a mandatory mind-numbing scripting class for Maya mel scripting that immediately became irelevant as it was no longer required as a pre requisite the next quarter. Now the following mel scripting class is the starting "script" class and it's essentially exactly the same as the last one, these accredited schools at times can be infuriating, knowing full well the diploma means next to nothing. On the flip-side I took a course focused on the unreal editor that made me fall completely in love with visual scripting for game design. Had mel scripting had more to do with gameplay i'm sure i would have enjoyed it more.
I can't stress how much more important the base skills and portfolio are than the degree you get at the end. So much more important that i wish i'd gone to a far less expensive school where they simply taught some base skills I needed to get into the industry much like a trade school, THAT is the school i would recommend you find. I believe gnomon does workshops in the LA area. It really doesn't have to be the best school in the world, there are AMAZING instructional videos that you could supplement a sub par education with, I would recommend the Gnomon and Eat3D series. I learned more in 3 hours watching a matte painting dvd by dylan cole than in the 11 week two thousands dollar class on matte painting.
So summed up my advice would be not to worry about prestige so much, find a decent school that's not too expensive that has some decent Unreal Editor Courses in the curriculum, if they have these it's a good sign they've got everything you'll need to learn to be an environment artist or any manner of game artist. Hopefully one that lets you choose courses at your leisure like a community college, or trade school.
Oh, and keep coming to polycount of course and posting your work here, plenty to learn on these forums as well
Edit: I forgot to mention the importance of color theory, design, composition, all that artsy farsty stuff. Art schools can actually do a fairly decent job at teaching this stuff. This formal education will make your porfolio that much stronger throughout your career. This more than anything will justify going to a full fledged art school, but it's certainly something you can learn on your own or on the job if you manage to make it by going through more of a trade school.
Texturing is the most important skill you need to develop since it seems to be the hardest thing to learn. So learn to paint. Modeling is easier to learn since it more straight forward in my opinion.
go here
http://guildhall.smu.edu/
8thftspider college is also good for getting you in debt and wasting your time.
But, seriously. Don't do game art. Or animation. Study art. JUST. STUDY. ART. You can learn this stuff infinitely more rapidly with a bit of gumption on your own. Technical skills are all you are taught in those programs. It's like teaching someone how to open a stove and put a frozen pizza in, but not giving them the skills to create that pizza from scratch.
Polycount(or similar) and your own drive to do the damned thanggggg. That's what you need. And art. Lots of it.
Tell me about it. I actually really enjoyed my time in college and met some really great people (profs and fellow students), but the fact is I could have done what I've done and gotten the job I have now with alot less schooling.
The most important thing is that you want to learn. If you have the discipline to invest the required time and effort to learn on your own without being pushed, you will excel. This is a necessary skill that to many people come out of high school not having. No one is going to 'teach' you shit at college. They expect you to teach yourself. The best instructors are going to coach you, support you, help you, but they are not going to babysit you, and that is the way it should be.
My problem with higher education:
- tech far behind the curve
- differences over direction of programs (i.e. at my univ they're stuck on open source bullshit instead of using industry accepted software, focus on BIM while hardly any firms are implementing it)
- too many profs/instructors are unqualified, have huge egos, are just drawing a paycheck, or don't want to be there
- hidden costs: lab fees, parking fees, fees, fees, fees
- the profs who are the best rarely get the attention they deserve
Don't let me put you off it, though. There are plenty of positives, too.Yes its not the best school ever, and each location varies from place to place, but school is what you make of it in the end. Your never going to be handed everything you need to know, but if you make the most of it then you might come out on top in the end. But after recently graduating from AI Dallas, I would tell you try and find a good school first, and let AI be your last resort if you find yourself getting rejected at other places.
That is all.
Awesome school, amazing teachers. Amazing people, I recommend it 100%.
Lol yeah, Id say now that you know what your doing, dont go to AI.
Only reason I picked it is because I didnt know what I wanted to do when I was 18, I just picked an art school and went and this is where I ended up, I didnt know anything about 3D or games or anything. You seem to know enough just by being on polycount as it is so dont do what all the other AI people did and research other schools first.
But like I said before, if your not legally retarded, and you can afford it, they WILL take you.
Disagree whole-heartedly with this. Technical skill, to me, is what needs to be taught in class. It's debilitating to try to pick up a 3d app or game engine with no prior knowledge, whereas practicing art and fine art is actually quite fun on your own.
And having said that, I was quite happy with AI (Ft. Lauderdale) because they offered a lot of such courses. And they had no artistic entry requirements. Quite nice if you're a guy who can draw, never heard of a portfo-what? before and never had any formal art training. I'm quite thankful that they gave me the chance to dive into the world of 3D.... although that was back in '98. Nowadays I think it's much easier to get a sense of direction and overview over the industry, thanks to the internet. I think AI also hiked up their prices a lot since then...
Eh, I think its better to take real art classes, life drawing and painting courses that focus on more than just the craft. I picked up 3D apps pretty quick just watching tutorials.
Failure can be a very motivating force if you let it.
Instead of this discussion thread, start posting some of your work on the web for critique. That will really help out alot.
^ this
I am a self learner and I read books so In addition; instead of taking traditional arts classes at the local community college, you can just learn to sketch on your own. Since CG does not require the arts at high level for starters make a basic sketch of what you want to make. Or you can go to Youtube and type speed drawing, which also theat alot in terms of sketching, buy tracing paper and print out made up sketches of any character and trace over them for practice.
3ds max comes with tutorials from basic to intermediate, so does Zbrush. If you are to learn those programs for your CG career in terms of gaming. If you are a good reader you can also buy books of CGz and learn from them. For that you just need to have good amount of 3d math skill. They have the book for that also. <.<
The moral of the story is, that you can start learning on your own.
Basic knowladge you need for CG (or not soo CG):
C++ Programming
Windows API
3d math.
If you are not looking for core CG programming and further more. I suggust that you should start saving for 3ds max, buy it and learn their tutorials. Make few projects for your portfolio. It becomes user friendly after a while.
Or You can go to community college/private college for that and pay 32k for the course.
There are a lot of alternatives to doing game design degrees. I guess that's my point. I don't find them to be valuable. Certainly not on cost vs gains levels.
EDIT: Actually never mind. I'll make my own thread sometime over the next month.
Just a small comment though that may help you. I've been set on going to Academy of Art for game design in San Francisco even though it has quite a few classes I have no interest in/don't need that are required, but now I'm starting to move more towards becoming more active here and using video tutorials. It's starting to seem like the better move now. If you haven't looked at Academy of Art I think you should. It was the best school I found through my bit of research and a few people I know going there in the Animation course have been enjoying it. Their student portfolios were much better than the AI school's in my opinion. I've visited an AI school and Academy of Art in person and Academy of Art was much more impressive and had a much better curriculum.
Good luck with whatever path you take!
http://uhanimation.co.uk/2009/showreel-2d3dvfxgamesart-digital-animation/
some quotes from the Games Industry
John Laws | Head of Art | Frontier
UH is one of the few Universities teaching the correct fundamental skills required by the games industry you have the right mix of traditional theory and cutting edge digital art creation, and understand that the tech is a tool rather than the end in itself. Im impressed.
http://www.frontier.co.uk/
Ian Yarwood-Lovett | Lionhead | Franchise Art Director | Microsoft Games Studio
Visiting the UHanimation course was a real eye opener for me; the quality of work produced coupled with the enthusiasm of the students makes this course one well be watching very closely in the future.
http://www.lionhead.com/
Jolyon Webb | Art Manager | Blitz Games Studios
We found the University of Hertfordshire students well-informed and focused; we were impressed with what we saw.
http://www.blitzgames.com/
Louise Ridgeway | Head of Animation | Rare Ltd | Microsoft Games Studio
What a pleasure it has been visiting the University of Hertfordshire for film day again this year. They again proved that they are one of the top unis for the industry at the moment, with another outstanding show of effort and commitment by a great bunch of enthusiastic students. A diamond in the rough.
http://www.rare.co.uk
Tara Saunders | Studio Art Manager | Sony Computer Entertainment | London Studio'
"The University of Hertfordshire has provided our studio with some talented graduates in recent years. It's definitely one of the courses to watch for upcoming talent"
http://www.scee.presscentre.com/
As was mentioned previously, it's also nice to have something to fall back on, especially these days. If you're interested in environmental art, architecture or industrial design are great fields of study that complement the art side of things as well as providing a fall-back job if needed. Another advantage of going is you usually have 'free electives' where you can take other classes like art intro to get a basis in theory and composition. You don't have to spend all your time painting and drawing, but a basic understanding of the fundamentals will have a dramatic impact on your 3D work, at least from my experience.