Need recommendations for most suitable 3D software according to my needs

adumin

I need a recommendation for a 3d application for sculptural artistic projects aimed at 3d printing.
The manner in which I work is to create pretty straight and smooth tubular shapes (full tube – not hollow. Not a pipe) which I then proceed to manipulate by twisting into intricate contortions. (Please see illustration attached – I start with state 1 and proceed to state 2)
This method of work could be compared to the reshaping of a round section iron bar with heat.
So what I am aiming it is a  3D software that would make it most intuitive and natural and easy for me to reshape and bend and twist those straight tubular shapes just like one would bend a round sectioned metal bar.
Thank you for you time and attention!

Alex_J

i think any major 3d package would do. Being free, blender seems like the best recommendation.

The place for you to start might be to learn how to make a basic rig for this cylinder shaped mannequin. You only need 101 level knowledge for modeling and rigging to accomplish this. But that can still be a few weeks or months of following tutorials and frustrating trial and error if you have never used a 3d program before.

none of it will feel intuitive so it may be worthwhile to pay somebody $50 or something to have them just show you what to do. That would only take like an hour, whereas on your own to figure everything out may take many times longer.

sacboi

Alternatively if you own a headset and fairly decent PC as well, then might be worthwhile checking out Substance Modeler (trial) to see how that grabs you. Also most of this artist's prints were created using it, recall he'd shared a breakdown over on BA though can't remember when exactly or link the source - sry.

EDIT:

BlenderArtists have a long running discussion pertaining to Blender's sculpt feature so maybe another avenue to explore, in terms of further relevant info.

https://blenderartists.org/t/the-big-blender-sculpt-mode-thread-part-2/1395490

pior

"The manner in which I work [...]" to do what currently ? Drawings, physical sculptures ?

"[...] a  3D software that would make it most intuitive and natural and easy"
As counter-intuitive as this may sound, you will be much better off avoiding such a framing of the question. Instead you are IMHO more likely to get quality (and useful) answers by simply asking people about the ways *they* would tackle such a problem, regardless of the process being "easy" or not.
Otherwise you'll get plenty of people recommending this or that sculpting software, which may appear to do what you want ... but with a lot of downsides that might be dealbreakers, like not being able to edit things after the fact, or the resulting models being unworkable because too dense, and so on.

Also, since you haven't started on the execution of the project yet (since there are no screenshots of 3d models being shown) you are clearly not in a rush at this point. With enough motivation even something seemingly complex (like understanding the basics of polygon modeling and the creation of an underlying armature) can be learned in just a few days/weeks.

All that said, here is a 4-minute video showing 3 ways of doing what you are after in Blender. Obviously getting there requires familiarity with the software (hence neither "easy" or intuitive), but once you have the information/target then you can do your research.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rla0EyUPokA

thomasp

If you decide to go with Blender and follow Pior's tips then I'd recommend looking into his method based on curves (the fleshy pinkish colored tubes on the right) but instead of the bezier curves chosen in the video check out what Blender calls a poly curve. It doesn't come with handles to control the curvature, instead you can subdivide it as needed to round off a corner. You can switch back and forth between the different curve types at any time too to compare.

Poly curves are much simpler to work with in my experience since you can deform them by only moving the control points around and don't have to worry about updating the handles every time the shape is changed. Curves can be locally twisted and scaled (tapered, fattened up) and converted to geometry for further refinement/sculpting. If you get into all that IMO there are only upsides over using polygon modelling to get the initial shape you're after.

Bonus - all curves come with parametric UVs, evenly distributed and updated automatically along the curve, handy for masking e.g. geometry in the geometry sculpting stage to quickly get these grooves you drew on top of your tubes.

adumin

Alex_J said:

i think any major 3d package would do. Being free, blender seems like the best recommendation.

The place for you to start might be to learn how to make a basic rig for this cylinder shaped mannequin. You only need 101 level knowledge for modeling and rigging to accomplish this. But that can still be a few weeks or months of following tutorials and frustrating trial and error if you have never used a 3d program before.

none of it will feel intuitive so it may be worthwhile to pay somebody $50 or something to have them just show you what to do. That would only take like an hour, whereas on your own to figure everything out may take many times longer.

adumin said:

I need a recommendation for a 3d application for sculptural artistic projects aimed at 3d printing.
The manner in which I work is to create pretty straight and smooth tubular shapes (full tube – not hollow. Not a pipe) which I then proceed to manipulate by twisting into intricate contortions. (Please see illustration attached – I start with state 1 and proceed to state 2)
This method of work could be compared to the reshaping of a round section iron bar with heat.
So what I am aiming it is a  3D software that would make it most intuitive and natural and easy for me to reshape and bend and twist those straight tubular shapes just like one would bend a round sectioned metal bar.
Thank you for you time and attention!

Thank you! I do have some minor prior experience with a range of 3d apps and with Blender specifically. The most suitable element I found in Blender to do the job is the curve but I fail to produce an intersected curve which is crucial for my needs. Or in other words: I can`t manage to create a forking curve... Tried converting curve into mesh, forking it and converting it to curve back again but I somehow fail.
Rigging a manequin is a very interseting option that didn`t cross my mind, Thank you! 
If I find an application that can produce a forking curve then I don`t mind buying it and naturally - paying for precise guidance is wise.

adumin

pior said:

"The manner in which I work [...]" to do what currently ? Drawings, physical sculptures ?

"[...] a  3D software that would make it most intuitive and natural and easy"
As counter-intuitive as this may sound, you will be much better off avoiding such a framing of the question. Instead you are IMHO more likely to get quality (and useful) answers by simply asking people about the ways *they* would tackle such a problem, regardless of the process being "easy" or not.
Otherwise you'll get plenty of people recommending this or that sculpting software, which may appear to do what you want ... but with a lot of downsides that might be dealbreakers, like not being able to edit things after the fact, or the resulting models being unworkable because too dense, and so on.

Also, since you haven't started on the execution of the project yet (since there are no screenshots of 3d models being shown) you are clearly not in a rush at this point. With enough motivation even something seemingly complex (like understanding the basics of polygon modeling and the creation of an underlying armature) can be learned in just a few days/weeks.

All that said, here is a 4-minute video showing 3 ways of doing what you are after in Blender. Obviously getting there requires familiarity with the software (hence neither "easy" or intuitive), but once you have the information/target then you can do your research.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rla0EyUPokA

First of all a big big thank you for the video! and a big Wow! I am so greateful! This video further develops an option I did not even consider which Alex_j brought up - rigging a manequin. My only apprehension and this also relates to your question about the final product is that the result might be a little bulgy and not as smooth and as flowing as a curve is, as the final product is a 3d printed sculpture and I need it to be real smooth from all directions I definitely need to try it out, as I saw in the video how you smoothed the rig, and see how it comes out in print - will it retain uniform cross section...
You are absolutly right about avoiding empasis on intuivity and learning curve. I do have both time and patience and so had better reach for accurate solutions complicated as may be, rather than easy and partial ones.
If I could only find a way to fork a poly line a curve, a path, that would be perfect for me.
Thanks again!

pior

Hi there - you're welcome.

 "I fail to produce an intersected curve which is crucial for my needs."

Well, why would you need a forking curve ? You simply create two curves, and ... that's it. 

This kind of assumption sounds a lot like a XY problem : asking about an attempted solution to a problem, as opposed to describing the actual problem itself. Here the assumption that you somehow need a "forking curve" might very well prevent you from considering something that would actually perfectly fit your needs. This is similar to asking for an "easy and intuitive" way of doing things, as opposed to simply inquiring about how people would do things if they were facing the specific problem you present.

For instance, you might think you need a "forking curve" because of some incorrect assumptions about 3D printing, or some lack of knowledge about what is possible in Blender (remesh, retopo).

"[...] I somehow fail."

When it comes to 3d software there really isn't such a thing as "somehow failing". If there is something that you think should be possible (like a conversion of one object type to another), but you can't manage to do it because you are not aware of the inputs for it ...  simply ask about it, and people will be able to help you out.

It would also be a good idea to show your actual target, much beyond what it conveyed by this quick sketch. Because the characteristics of your actual goal might make some approaches not suitable in practice, even though they'd work great on a simple bendy stickman.

- - - - -

In short : be more specific about your actual goal, and avoid any pre-conceived assumptions on how to get there.
Also, I'd suggest avoiding full-on quote replies as they make threads painful to read. Simply partially quoting or even just pinging the user with @ in your reply is enough IMHO.

adumin

sacboi said:

Alternatively if you own a headset and fairly decent PC as well, then might be worthwhile checking out Substance Modeler (trial) to see how that grabs you. Also most of this artist's prints were created using it, recall he'd shared a breakdown over on BA though can't remember when exactly or link the source - sry.

EDIT:

BlenderArtists have a long running discussion pertaining to Blender's sculpt feature so maybe another avenue to explore, in terms of further relevant info.

https://blenderartists.org/t/the-big-blender-sculpt-mode-thread-part-2/1395490

Thank you for the recommendation for this application and for the link! I will start exploring them. I definitely am partial towards Adobe considering the good use I always made of many of their apps and I did not know this one existed. First of all I will try to figure out whether Susbstance modeler has an option to create something like a forking curve.

Alex_J

if it is for printing which means that the final result is a static model, it wont matter if use a rig or bind to some curves or whatever. If you end up with a little distortion that you don't like here or there, you can just smooth that easily in a few clicks. The way you pose the model is just a convenience. The reason I thought about a rig is because you can do the bends and twist in an intuitive way and it won't warp the geometry as much as compared to if you just used soft select. 

I didn't read super carefulyl into what the other guys are doing with curves, but it sounds like you'd get same result as a rig but fewer steps to setup.

In whatever case you go with, don't worry about the deformations giving you a perfect result. You are in a 3d modeling app, you can easily fix up those little imperfections once you get the main pose in place.

adumin

adumin

ThanK you, @pior
Right, will avoid quoting entire messages...
What I am aiming at, the actual target, is pretty much stick figures just as you guessed.
It does make sense I make wrong prior assumptions that only complicate and hinder the path to a solution.
I will try again using seperate curves. For some reason when I beveled them the connection points between the separate curves came out strange but now that you state that this is a viable solution I will definitely try it again and again until I get better results.

adumin

That is good news, @Alex_J! It means the methods are available, and need only perfect them at the final stage. Thank you!
Will right away start learning rigging and smoothing in blender. Rigging does seem to offer a very intuitive manner of control of the contortions as there are no handles and the process is much like in real life.

pior

By the way, "bendy" characters are a common thing in both 2D and 3D animation - and therefore, specialty "bendy bones" rigging techniques have been developed accordingly. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGQeLhecfHw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YT3Ocxeawo

adumin

Thank you, @thomasp! I did stumble on poly lines in blender but as I was daunted by inability to fork them, which I now understand by @pior is not really necessary for my needs, I will study them further and try to figure out the differences between them and regular curves.

thomasp

adumin said:

Thank you, @thomasp! I did stumble on poly lines in blender but as I was daunted by inability to fork them, which I now understand by @pior is not really necessary for my needs, I will study them further and try to figure out the differences between them and regular curves.

Note that poly curves are not quite the same as poly lines - the latter is still a mesh, just one that is made up of edges and vertices without faces (Blender specialty if I'm not mistaken - invalid geometry in most other apps I know).

If you however convert that line to a curve then you end up with a (drumroll) ... poly curve that can be used in all the same ways as Bezier and Nurbs in Blender, so you can give it a profile and change interpolation settings. Try creating one with as few control vertices as possible for easy posing and use subdivision modifiers to round it off.

Convert to geometry and edit as a mesh to weld several of them together in the end to create forks would be how I'd approach it. Then it's time for sculpting if you want to add detail. The parametric UVs of curves that are a result of the process should be pretty handy to get a head start for sculpt masking or texturing.

Here's an overview of the different curve types: https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/curves/structure.html

Michael Knubben

Two alternative ways to what Pior shared:

The Skin modifier. This has the advantage of forking

Curves with a 'SphereCapCurve' modifier (can be found online, but I can send it if you DM me)