Colt Dragoon pistol - cowboy pistol (crits and advices needed)

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Olingova polycounter lvl 3
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Hello there!

Several weeks ago i bought assassin's creed origins, and that awesome game is stealing me waaaay too much time already. Sicne then, i watched a shitload of artworks nd advices on the previous one, syndicate, and i can already feel that buying it would lead at least to waaaaay too many hours lost in gaming again.. So i decided to start the modelization of several props of this era instead, and started with a Colt Dragoon of 1848.

I'm currently working as an environment artist for mobile games, so it feels really good to finally spend a shitload of tris on the topology, and i really wanted to have some advices on the current state of the project:

(Last but not least, i'm already working on a prototype with other people on my spare time so maybe the updates won't be that regular on this psot and im sorry about that :s )

The first ref:

Current state of the beast:


I was really curious to have your advice on this topoly, anything weird?



Replies

  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx polycounter lvl 7
    Olingova said:
    Hello there!

    Several weeks ago i bought assassin's creed origins, and that awesome game is stealing me waaaay too much time already. Sicne then, i watched a shitload of artworks nd advices on the previous one, syndicate, and i can already feel that buying it would lead at least to waaaaay too many hours lost in gaming again.. So i decided to start the modelization of several props of this era instead, and started with a Colt Dragoon of 1848.

    I'm currently working as an environment artist for mobile games, so it feels really good to finally spend a shitload of tris on the topology, and i really wanted to have some advices on the current state of the project:

    (Last but not least, i'm already working on a prototype with other people on my spare time so maybe the updates won't be that regular on this psot and im sorry about that :s )

    The first ref:

    Current state of the beast:


    I was really curious to have your advice on this topoly, anything weird?



    does it subd and shade well..then no need to worry
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    wirrexx said:

    does it subd and shade well..then no need to worry
    Yeah that make sense :p Thanks!
    For the moment i dont wanna look too much into the poly reduction but i still try to stay reasonable...

    Hadn't that much time to work on that piece but still managed o make the forst blocking of the barrel:



    Any more advices or crits is more than welcome!
  • Zodd
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    Zodd polycounter lvl 6
    Are you planning on doing hi and low poly and bakes ? if so in what order are you making them? first high or first low?
    Asking because you may have to fix the topology of the revolving barrel, since you wont get nice smoothing of high poly, but i figure its in early stage, so the topology in the screenshot is not final. Just wanted to give you a heads up
    Keep up the good work. :)

  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Zodd said:
    Are you planning on doing hi and low poly and bakes ? if so in what order are you making them? first high or first low?
    Asking because you may have to fix the topology of the revolving barrel, since you wont get nice smoothing of high poly, but i figure its in early stage, so the topology in the screenshot is not final. Just wanted to give you a heads up
    Keep up the good work. :)

    Hey :)
    Yeah i forgot the basics huhu: i'm planning on making a low and high and bake all of that; currently i'm working on what will be the low pol. Yup still got some fix to do on the barrel to be sure it can smooth well, gotta find a way to nicely bevel all of that. Thanks for the feedback!!

    I stole some end of the working day (its close to 7pm here in Japan :D) to quickly advance in this part too:

    Didn't totally cleaned the topology yet

  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3

    Quick update but your heads up made me want to try to clean the topology a bit to try to have a nice smooth: here is the result :D
  • MPearson
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    MPearson triangle
    Hello! :)

    Happy Holidays!

    Work is looking great :) Just thought i'd share a trick that may be useful (you may already know about it), but the button highlighted below will display all the edges over the top of your mesh, so you can show off topology easily :)

     
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Hey happy Holidays to you too :D

    Ow yeah i knew it but kinda forgot that function haha thanks for that reminder, always usefull!
    Thanks for the cheering :)
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Quick little update the overall blocking is close to finished!! I made a quick split of different pieces just for fun


    Here is an interesting view (even if it's not exactly the same model it's really usefull to understand how differents pieces are combined)


  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Hey everyone!

    Busy week at work, couldn't work that much on this lill' project, and it's probably the last post of 2017 since it's holidays soon !!

    Quickly reworked the grip, kept everything separate (want to be able to do epic split up of different pieces :p)
    Worked on the little pin on the middle.

    And for those who could be interested here is the plan i'm using for the moment :)


    Soon i'll be able ti unwrap all of that and start the highPoly :D I can't wait to texture that thing..

    So happy new year to everyone already, enjoy what's left of 2017!
  • Zodd
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    Zodd polycounter lvl 6
    Ah so its low to high, well no issues there then :) i usually work high to low, makes it easier to put extra edges where needed, for instance, in the image below "Didn't totally cleaned the topology yet" text you have some unnecessary loops on sides (disregarding unfinished topology)
    But again, i never worked low to high so ill refrain from giving you empty advices :)
    What are you intending to use for baking? you may not need to separate everything for baking if you use naming convention and something like substance designer or xnormal.

    Looking good btw, and happy new year :)



  • CrackRockSteady
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    CrackRockSteady Polycount Sponsor
    Btw on the half-sphere piece behind the cylinder it looks like you've got the "scoop" shape on the wrong side.  It should be on the right, you have it on the left.
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Zodd said:
    Ah so its low to high, well no issues there then :) i usually work high to low, makes it easier to put extra edges where needed, for instance, in the image below "Didn't totally cleaned the topology yet" text you have some unnecessary loops on sides (disregarding unfinished topology)
    But again, i never worked low to high so ill refrain from giving you empty advices :)
    What are you intending to use for baking? you may not need to separate everything for baking if you use naming convention and something like substance designer or xnormal.

    Looking good btw, and happy new year :)



    Hey, Happy new year to you too! :)

    Yeah, i thought this project could be a really nice way to confront my workflow actually, i have been used to work Low to High but i see the benefits of going high to low, maybe i should change that bad habit.. :pensive:
    Ow you're talking about the bevels on the sides? I thought for a gun like that (eventually used in FPS) i could use more loops to have a good shape, you think that's too much?

    I usually use XNormal and "split" my mesh in Maya, as a single FBX file but every piece separated to avoid baking issues. I would be really interested in hearing other technique tho!

    Btw on the half-sphere piece behind the cylinder it looks like you've got the "scoop" shape on the wrong side.  It should be on the right, you have it on the left.
    Hey thanks for commenting!!
    Yeah you're totally right gotta change that :p

    Anyway, new year took me a lot of time (nd brain cells), i'm slowly starting to work again i will post updates asap! Thanks a lot for your advices :)
  • Zodd
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    Zodd polycounter lvl 6
    No right or wrong regarding the high to low or low to high, just what suits you better, you'll see what you like best over time.
    And about bevels on the sides, well it comes down to what looks good, try and position the gun in front of camera as if it would be in fps game and see if the sharp edge is visible, if not leave it. Also think about how you want to present final images, if you want to show the closeups then maybe leave it in, and disregards a little higher polygon count (i guess youll want to make more of these "detailed edges" across the model in "closeups in final renders" case)
    So in the end it really comes down to how you want to display final work.
    I use the same approach as you with xNormal and splitting mesh and doing countless bakes :smile: the other one is to use substance painter and just set naming convention so the bake automatically splits things... now that i think about it is pretty much the same.. only thing different is "how" mesh is split

    Waiting for high poly goodness :smiley:
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Ok that's what i thought :D :D Yeah maybe i should do soem testing before adding those loops, i think the sensation of freedom (compared to the harsh polycount limits at work) made me a bit too enthousiastic haha

    Yeah, usually i keep all the separated pieces as one mesh tho, so one big bake is enough once i got the good settings!! But i definitely gotta take a look at that naming convention stuff, it's brand new for me i'm glad to learn new stuff! (That's the goal of this thread :D)

    Thansk for your reply and your feedback i really appreciate that, will try to come back with updates as soon as work calm down a bit!
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Hello there, long time no see :)

    Busy time at work nd a bit of sickness stoped me for a while, but it took some quick time to start the highpoly with the easiest and fast parts: simple smooths and some floating objects:

    I'll try to get more time for that gun the next weeks to come, since my other prototype deadline is coming soon :)
  • Zodd
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    Zodd polycounter lvl 6
    Looking cool

    Maybe soften the edges on screws more so you get better bakes off it, but this may be because im looking at the smaller image so they seem too sharp but in reality are not (just a suggestion)
    Also the trigger guard, is it high or low poly, because there is some weird shading on it, but it depends on whether its high or low... so may not need to be fixed :)

    Keep at it, its coming out nicely  :)
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Thanks so much for the cheering :D My sickness became real, nd i had to take a day off, forgetting the last version of my file at work.. But yeah maybe i will make those bevels a bit bigger to be sure they bake welll that's a good crit. I ll keep posting asap!
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Hey!

    The reaaaally good thing about making a psot here it's that it helps me to take soem time (even just 30 min) to work a bit on this pistol.
    I kinow it can look like i'm working really slowly but i got my work stuff that take me a lot of time plus an awesome prototype that i can't wait to psot here :p this pistol is jsut to relax and learn!! So i smoothed and adjusted the main parts:

    And as @Zodd ; suggested i changed the bevels a bit to be sure it would bake well even for the small one :D:dizzy:


    For the body part, i still think the topology is reaaaally messy; here is the one used to smooth (thick edges are creased one), any advices?

    Reaaally can't wait to texture that bad boy
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3

    Really quick update; stole some time at work to keep smoothing everything (slowly but deadly, i ll get this guy ready)



    Also decided to not actually make that hole in the Lowpoly and jsut bake it this way, since the cylinder (not smoothed yet so grey wireframe) will always be in that position :)
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Ok, after discovering that excellent ref: https://grabcad.com/library/colt-walker-1847

    I decided to take a step back and redo the base geometry to have the good shapes and also having everything functional :dizzy:



    The High poly is kinda finished:


    Just adding those lill relief on the barrel and i should be good to go :D



  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3

    Quick post since i finished the High poly :D Gotta unwrap my Low (i adapted some topology on it) then bake nd put all of that in painter!
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3

    Took the time to finally bake it!! Texture are really placeholders, still got to chose a ref, i think going with some engraved details or something. I maybe will need some substance painter advices on that we ll see!!
    It ended up relatively low poly with only 4k tris :)

    Here's how i split my mesh to bake it for the curious:


    Edit: should have taken the screenshots from the other view; kinda more details :p


  • Zodd
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    Zodd polycounter lvl 6
    Hey, sry, long time no reply < workworkwork :)

    Looking good, and the bakes are nice, one thing that jumps out is the handle may be too low poly.
    Compare the metal half sphere part.. directly above the trigger (im not good with gun part names :) ) with the handle, so if we call
    the metal half sphere smaller shape and handle bigger shape >
    There is roughly twice the amount of edges used to define the smaller shape that is half the size of bigger shape, this is some crude guideline i personally use (so it may not be a rule :) ) and essentially means that maybe you should try and add more geometry to the handle to avoid visible edges in low poly :)
    And regarding the textures, since you've said this is a placeholder it's ok for now :)

    And as always keep up the good work :) (i know im riddling this post with smileys sry :) )
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Hey @Zodd :) haha don't worry i also got this bad habit of overusing those smileys!!

    Yeah now that you say so i totally agree i ll rework that part, definitely! It actually happens really often to me, i realize way too late that i should have added more definition to a certain part haha

    Even if i will rework and rebake that handle i already had fun a bit with substance:



    And some testing after seeing that ref : http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/madcratebuilder/media/bWVkaWFJZDo3ODUwMjQ3NQ==/?ref=



    I was thinking about making a lot of differents textures, i ll see after correcting that grip!
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Double post again but i reaaaally can't stop myself to go back to this texturing it's way too fun haha, i added some small engravings and reworked the main metal. Any crits about the texturing is more than welcome!
    No real renders for the moment, just painter screenshots :p I'm planning to make good renders when i will have fixed the grip


  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3


    Had a bit of fun with Painter :p time's flying when you're texturing with that soft!!
  • Olingova
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    Olingova polycounter lvl 3
    Hi there!
    I'm moving on smthing else for the moment i spent waaaay too much time for what was supposed to be a lill free time project :p i will definitely go back to that gun for better renders but for now i will leave it here! I posted it on Artstation if you want more images:

    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/YYZZV

    Thanks for your comments and attention!
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