WIP Female Model

Hey all!

This is my first post and my first high poly model and I was hoping to get some constructive feedback on how it's going so far before I add hair, clothes, etc. Anything you can offer advice about would be extremely helpful because I'm very new to Zbrush and this is my first character model.

Thanks so much for any tips or critique! :)

Lilith6.jpg

lilithfrontview1.jpg

Lilith2.jpg

Lilith5.jpg

Lilith1.jpg

Lilith3.jpg

Replies

  • Tenchi
    Great start! First off I would say the head is too small proportionally. Perhaps the neck too. Mammaries look a little lopsided ...Lips look good ^^
  • PixelKitty
    Thanks for the advice! I was afraid that her head got too small again (this keeps happening).

    If you can elaborate about the boobs that would be good - I've re-done them a few times now. I'm struggling between looking lopsided or gravity defying but I can't seem to achieve that happy balance, lol.

    Thanks again!
  • Tenchi
    Hmm well if you look at the profile from the front, the underside of the breast is slanted/lopsided and could be more circular. From the side profile a more natural look would be from the top to curve inwards and then out, as opposed to the bullet shape in yours :D

    Hope that helps, I would've used some pics, but was hesitant to turn your thread NSFW ^_'
  • PixelKitty
    Tenchi wrote: »
    Hmm well if you look at the profile from the front, the underside of the breast is slanted/lopsided and could be more circular. From the side profile a more natural look would be from the top to curve inwards and then out, as opposed to the bullet shape in yours :D

    Hope that helps, I would've used some pics, but was hesitant to turn your thread NSFW ^_'


    Okay thanks so much! I'll keep working on it. And pictures are helpful, I'm not worried about the NSFW part, she is naked at this point anyway ;D haha
  • PixelKitty
    Here's some updates to the chest area. I made some adjustments to the boobs to hopefully give them a more natural, less bullet like profile. Please let me know what you think.

    Brutally honest critiques are encouraged here! Thank you :3


    torso2.jpg

    torso1.jpg

    torso3.jpg
  • PixelKitty
    Also adjusted the size of the head and neck. Please let me know if you think this is a bit more proportional. Thanks :)

    fullbody.jpg
  • Kot_Leopold
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    Kot_Leopold polycounter lvl 5
    sfwb9x.jpg

    She's almost 8 heads tall which is a bit of an overkill. The average human height is 7 and a half heads tall. I would shorten her legs down a little.
  • Mezz
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    Mezz polycounter lvl 8
    Her hands are currently really small. I think they may need to be about doubled in size from what they are at the moment. Her upper body is also leaning back waaay too far. It needs to be brought further in and the lower neck area needs to be shortened a bit. It will look more natural if the head and neck rest straighter.

    Also, Kot_Leopold, the model is currently standing on tip-toes, making her taller than she actually is. However, I don't know if that's the best way to model the feet, since they're looking a bit awakard. PixelKitty, I'd suggest reworking them so they lay normally, and then you can rig them back into a higher position once you're done. After you do that, it'd be easier to judge if she seems too akwardly tall or not.

    Good work so far, keep going!
  • PixelKitty
    Thanks Kot_Leopold and Mezz! I should have mentioned I'm working from a concept where the character appears to be wearing high heeled boots and her shoulders do appear to be arched backwards. I'll attach it for reference. It's not my concept, but Travis Bourbeau's from the Gnomon Workshop.

    As for the hands, I'll have to take a closer look at them and try to tweak the size some :) Thanks so much for the feedback!


    Lilith_ConceptArt.jpg
  • PaulP
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    PaulP polycounter lvl 5
    Obviously most of your proportions and pose are based around the concept art, so feel free to disregarde some of this.

    Body:
    Shoulders too far back, neck too thin, calf muscles too pronounced (smooth out and redefine muscle), fingers spread out very far (looks very uncormfortable), arms look too straight from side view (angle top of foreamr towards elbow slightly foward, then straighten out forearm towards ground).

    Head:
    smooth transition and mass around tip of nose and nostrils (tricky area to get right, but reference is key!), add volume to lips as they are looking quite flat (inflate brush is great for this), build up clavicles around base of neckline (helps create definition between torso and neck), use move tool with large brush size to pull head up and back slightly, define back muscles at base of neck.

    Hope I didn't seem over critical, good luck with it and hope you're enjoying ZBrush! :)
  • PixelKitty
    Thanks SCB! That wasn't overly critical at all - that's just the type of thing I need to hear ;)

    I'll be making some tweaks to those places based on your feedback as I continue on adding clothes and whatnot.

    Thanks again!
  • PixelKitty
    Okay so I've started to give her crazy collar and shirt a go and I'm completely lost as to how to make this collar look more rigid. I'm not even sure I used an efficient method of creating the geometry for it (I masked it around her neck and extracted the geometry as part of the shirt from there and just moved it into place pretty painstakingly).

    This is not your usual collar so there weren't really any tutorials to help me with this sort of thing so any advice is much appreciated. If you look at the previous post with the concept art it will give you an idea of what I'm looking to achieve. The collar should be more 3 dimensional and hard edged than the shirt (somehow).

    Here is what I have so far for it:
    collar1.jpg

    collarside.jpg
  • PixelKitty
    Some updates to the model that I made yesterday! Still in progress of course so give any feedback you have!

    Much appreciated!

    Lilith1-1.jpg

    Lilith2-1.jpg

    Lilith3-1.jpg

    Lilith4-1.jpg

    Lilith5-1.jpg
  • PyrZern
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    PyrZern polycounter lvl 5
    Nice start on her hair, I like.
    I think you could work further on her face to bring out more femininity.
  • Macattackk
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    Macattackk polycounter lvl 6
    yes i agree with PyrZern. id start by making the chin less round and broad. women usually have pointier chins in the front view. also her chin is rounder in the profile view than your concept. id try to make that flatter. you could also bring her brow line back and make it less prominent like it is in the concept.

    i personally think her cheeks are too high as it gives her a sort of plastic surgery look like she got them lifted. also i would diminish the smiling lines coming from her nose to make her look cuter. another way to make her look cuter is to give her more of a point at the peak of her nose in the profile view. currently it is very round. also in the profile view she has sort of a pouting look like shes puckering her lips which seems unnatural. id bring her bottom lip back and then level her chin with them more to make them less protruding.

    another thing that will make her more feminine as far as her body would be to make her shoulders less broad.
  • Alex3d
    The HP sculpt looks cool.
    The obvious anatomical mistakes have been mentioned and you should definitely fix them :P(In MOP, you should sculpt ears as opposed to push them out of the scull and the elbows look too flimsy) Even if this is not the work you are going to present, you never know who might see it - might hurt your future prospect...
    However, there are a number of things that the TDs will kill you for. Just because the concept artist painted the character that way, doesn't mean its right. Your character must be modeled to make the rigging easier. Spread the legs to avoid effecting vertices on legs that should belong to opposite bones. I would elevate her arms a bit as well (up to you). The hands should def be re-modeled to fit the scale; while you do that shape them to be more relaxed with the thumbs positioned as if they are about to grab something (but still relaxed).
    Good work so far, keep going!
  • cdevens
    Wow, very nice progress. It is amazing how much of a difference the hair makes. I think the stitch that runs down the center of the pants looks a little thin and maybe needs an actual seam with it. Can't wait to see more progress.
  • PixelKitty
    Another update! I took some of the suggestions about her shoulders and hands and attempted to improve those features. I've also spent quite a bit of time attempting to make her face prettier/more feminine as requested.

    I've also just started on her harness but I haven't done much to detail it yet so disregard the shape of that so far. Also, you'll see a little separation line from where I've made her upper body a separate subtool and then continued to adjust a bit. This part will be covered by the upper part of her gloves so I'm not too concerned.

    Please let me know what you think of the changes! :) Thank you all so much for your help!

    makeover2.jpg

    makeover1.jpg

    shouldershands.jpg

    frontwholebody.jpg

    backnew.jpg
  • helldiver
    Quick paintover of the face:

    makeover1.jpg

    -Chin-cheek profile made slimmer (more of a V shape to the lower half of her face)
    -The nose is pinching, relax the nose-to-cheek area (where the nose bridge conects to the cheek bones.
    -Angled the jaw slightly so it wasn't so square.
    -Nasal-labial area also has to be relaxed slightly.
    -outer eye lower lid made droopier, lazier. This make her look cuter (note your concept). Inner eye also drooped slightly. See Brittney Spears eyes to get an idea. Lowered the lower eyelids.
    -Upper outer eyelid raised.
    -Inner Eye apex increased (upper eyelid inner top corner).
    -Nose bridge too sharp. To bring her closer to your concept you want to relax the nose bridge as well as widen it. If you were to cut it in half instead of a V it should be a slim U shape.
    -Lower lip broadened
    -Upper lip clefted. Although I was not able to remove the duck face look. You'll want to bring in the mouth a bit.
    -Fixed hair to flow more like your concept and not be so "executive".

    This isn't the best but I hope it helps you :D
  • PixelKitty
    Thanks helldiver! I really appreciate the paintover example. I'll work on adjusting some of those things tonight :)
  • PixelKitty
    Here's the result of attempting to follow some of your suggestions! Looking any better?
    face2.jpg

    Face1.jpg
  • helldiver
    Much better. I did one more quick paintover:
    Face1.jpg

    -I'd relax the nose some more. Also, careful you're starting to get a bulge on the sides of the nose bridge.
    -The tip of your nose is bulging a bit too much. From your concept it seems she's petite and caucasian, so her nose wouldn't be so round at the tip and instead would have a sharper profile.
    -The top of the jaw has a strange bulge I normally see in men. You may want to get rid of that bulge and have a straight clean line.
    -Chin is a lot sharper in your concept. I'd sharpen the chin some more.
    -Cheek is still too high, see my paint over.
    -You may want to raise the inner eye apex (inner, top right corner).
    -Lower eyelid towards the outside you may want to lower it. She'll match a lot closer later on when you do makeup in your diffuse.
    -Upper lip is too narrow. Usually the upper lip is broader than the lower. Your concept shows it.

    [Note] The guidelines I put on there are not actual topology/edge flow. They are contour lines only (although edgeflow sometimes follow the contour lines).

    Anyhow, hope this helps some more. It's looking good so far!
  • PixelKitty
    Haven't made any real changes to the face again, but I think I better realized her back holster/shoulder rig thing.

    backdetails.jpg

    strapsfront.jpg
  • PixelKitty
    Hello again!

    I've made quite a few changes so I thought it might be a good time to update!

    Critiques please if you have them :)

    Lilith.jpg

    Lilith9.jpg

    Lilith3-2.jpg

    Lilith10.jpg

    More here:
    http://s1184.photobucket.com/albums/z321/pixelk1tty/New%20Lilith%20Pics/

    Thank you!
  • Alemja
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    Alemja interpolator
    Her face is looking better, I think her mouth could just be a touch wider. I notice that your legs are very close to each other, this will create a problem when sculpting if it hasn't already. Hands are looking a lumpy as well, but other than that it's coming along
  • PixelKitty
    Thanks! I'll try and adjust her mouth. So far the legs being that way hasn't managed to cause an issue - I guess I just stuck with their position from the concept not really thinking about it. The boots are two different subtools so I can turn them on and off and hide a leg if I need to. When I figure out how to pose her it may get interesting!
  • PixelKitty
    Some renders of the model, mostly done sculpting now - there's a few more tweaks I'd like to make. Feedback, as always is much appreciated.

    Lilith1.jpg

    Lilith4.jpg

    Lilith3.jpg

    Lilith2.jpg
  • Mezz
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    Mezz polycounter lvl 8
    She's come a long way and is looking good, but seriously, those hands are still wayyy too small!! Possibly the entire arm. I'd try to scale it up a lot, and then re-evaluate how the proportions look. You can always scale it back from there. But, if you only scale up the hands/arms bit by bit, you'll probably find people will continue to complain it still looks too small.

    Good work though, keep it up!
  • Tenchi
    You've made some great progress! :D I think the only proportions that need revisiting are the feet, look a bit small. Other than that it's good so far ^^
  • Tobbo
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    Tobbo polycounter lvl 5
    The progress on this is simply awesome! I love threads like this that show the progress. Are you going to texture her? =)
  • PixelKitty
    Mezz - I'll have to investigate that a bit more, I sized them up quite a bit - however at certain angles I can see what you are saying. I think it may be that the arms are too short now.

    Tenchi - I agree about the feet, in the artwork they are somewhat small but it didn't translate well to 3d ;)

    Tobbo - Thank you! Yes I hope to texture her but I need to study up more on how to go about that in Zbrush! I'm still learning as I go
  • Tobbo
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    Tobbo polycounter lvl 5
    I found that I really like Spotlight when texturing people using Zbrush. =)
  • Tigerfeet
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    Tigerfeet Polycount Sponsor
    When I stand up and tuck my elbows in, they extend below my ribcage, just about in the middle of my waist. With my arms down at my sides my fingers are halfway down my thighs. The length of the hand from the heel to the fingertips should be 2/3 of the forearm. The biggest part of studying anatomy is learning the proportions of body parts to each other. :)
  • helldiver
    Loving the body.

    Not too conviced with the face, definately may want to go back to that.

    The boots, particularly the soles I'm not too convinced. Could you post an image showing an example of the boots you're doing?

    Something isn't right with her hands but I can't quite point it out. Mostly to do with your thumb to hand connection.

    Other than those things, she's coming along pretty good.
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