[Student] - how much do I suck?

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Fozwroth polycounter lvl 6
hey there people. so my internship is ending in 2 weeks and they won´t give me an answer if a position here is an option so I´ve been applying for alot of different jobs out there. I have been rejected by them all so basicly I would like is to get some general feedback on my work, maybe I need to restart and apply for another school again since at the moment it seems my stuff don´t cut it.

here is the link www.simonbarle.com

and also a crappy bus I made during my time here:

mashtuurbus01.jpg

Made for the battlefield 2 engine and just brought into UDK for better res.

No need to be gentle here I really need some opinions.

Thanks!

Replies

  • Steve Schulze
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    Steve Schulze polycounter lvl 12
    Link to your portfolio doesn't appear to be working.
  • Fozwroth
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    Fozwroth polycounter lvl 6
    Does it work now? it works over here..
  • BrendtheCow
  • Blur.
    Looks very nice imo.
  • specsowl
    Alright, I'm not going to lie, asking how much you suck isn't the best preface for a critique thread. It's possible that either they are waiting or you just aren't the talent they're looking for. Either way, you have to be confident in your work, and any suggestions given to you, take them into consideration. I'm automatically inclined to dislike your bus, considering you called it a crappy bus. It looks good, however there doesn't seem to be a specular map. Also the text on the front is just a scaled version of the text on the side of the bus. Perhaps making a new design that's more full and not a scaled up version. I hope I helped, and I wish you good luck.
  • oobersli
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    oobersli polycounter lvl 11
    confused by the last post.. hows this have to do with the OP? *the gun post*

    anyways, i think your stuff is ok dude. i wouldn't try applying to another school, I think you have a good grasp of how things are done, you just need to put in some hours and create more content. You'll learn from your mistakes as you go along and if you keep posting your stuff here, plenty of people will eventually chime in with advice.

    and if you have an internship then it means your stuff doesn't suck that bad. just keep with it. :)
  • katana
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    katana polycounter lvl 10
    First off, take the word's 'Suck', 'Crappy' and anything else similar to these out of your vocabulary. Second, you've indicated that you are a student. That means that your work is a reflection of being in a learning stage.

    Your textures show this as well. They will need a lot more punch and vitality to break away from 'student grade'.

    To get there, you'll need a serious level of dedication and immersion to learning all you can on your own, but more specifically, "Practicing" what you are learning.

    A year or more down the road of having worked 'more hours than you can count', at home, without distraction, you can start applying again.

    You'll get there, but it might be prudent to really look at other peoples work, who are in the industry, to get a goal in mind. Right now it looks like you only have a couple of layers on that may have only taken about 15 minutes to put together.

    When you get to the point where people are asking "How did you do that?" Then you'll be ready.
  • sltrOlsson
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    sltrOlsson polycounter lvl 7
    Yeah, I'm kinda in your position. I've felt that maybe my art isn't good enough, since i don't get any jobs, or that my portfolio doesn't show my current skill anyways.

    I've thought of applying for another 2 year of education and realized that it's not worth it. Sure, you'll be in an great environment and you'll really have time to focus on what you think is fun. But seriously, 120.000 SEK more (assuming that you'll go to one of the KY/YH schools) in student loans. It's not that much fun!

    (I feel that my text is kinda all over, but whatever) I've pretty much been in the exact same position and decided not to go an other 2 years. You have some good contacts from school, keep in touch with them. Take a step back from 3D and really think about how and what you should do. Like some have already stated above, just put some time into it, hang around on PC and study the wiki like it's porn!

    I graduated in 2011 with my internship, which sucked hairy balls, I was really put off by that experience, cried a bit, toke a boring job for 6 month, worked on some 3D, applied for university (practical philosophy, funky stuff), I've been here 6 month soon but I've kept up 3D as much as possible and I've been offered one job, done one art test for a smaller Swedish company and right now I'm about to start one for an bigger studio in the UK.

    What I want to say with that is, don't rush things. You'r young, if you don't get hired right of the bat, what the hell? Get your self some laidback summer job and do some badass 3D over the summer, then you'll get back at applying in September.
  • WarrenM
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    WarrenM Polycount Sponsor
    I really wish people wouldn't run themselves down when asking for critiques. Be proud! Everyone has room to improve, there's no need to cower.
  • Fozwroth
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    Fozwroth polycounter lvl 6
    thanks for the feedback and the suggestions! well yeah Ive probably shouldnt use those kind of words when it comes to my stuff but at the moment its kinda hard to keep my chin up, feels like I will come to the graduation party as the "looser of the class"

    I guess I could just take a few steps back and do new things for my portfolio a couple of months and then go for it again. Ive spent almost every free hour I have looking at threads here, tutorials, workflows and practicing everything. all those hours feels abit in vain at the moment :P hehe, also they things here are usually at such an amazing level so from time to time it feels abit hopeless ^^
  • mutatedjellyfish
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    mutatedjellyfish polycounter lvl 7
    Self deprecation is crippling and destructive. My only critique is on your attitude. I've literally seen good artists talk themselves out of being successful because of how harsh they were to themselves. Seriously, it will destroy your work. I would say keep plugging away on the work, but the real project right now should be why you insist on feeling the way you do. Analyze what's creating those feelings and create a plan to either cut those elements out of your life or deal with them.

    Also, consider this book the textbook for the process:

    artnfear.jpg
    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Art-Fear-Observations-Rewards-Artmaking/dp/0961454733/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1335453088&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: Art & Fear: Observations On the Perils (and Rewards) of Artmaking (9780961454739): David Bayles, Ted Orland: Books[/ame]

    I would recommend getting it and reading it.
  • Luke003
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    Luke003 polycounter lvl 5
    That book looks really interesting. I have felt similarly, but I can usually count on my friends to uplift my spirits concerning my artwork. The only problem is, they can't really offer me hardcore critiques. That's why I love this forum. So many genius minds in one place...

    One thing I did read that really put me in a good mindset was this, by Ben Mathis. Now, instead of painting this self deprecating pity-fest that I have been for the past several years after college, I'm more focused than ever on just improving my skills.

    As far as the bus goes, I think it looks like a good start. There's always room for improvement. Like Katana said, when people say, "how did you do that," that's a good place to be.
  • Selaznog
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    Selaznog polycounter lvl 5
    Your stuff looks good, just not amazing. And I would take the Nurgle-Nought off your site. It's not as good as your other stuff and it brings everything else down. You could fix it by making sure the pestules and chaotic infection spreads across the armour more, or blends a bit better. The armour looks really plain and has no battle damage.

    This one is a little too vibrant for my liking, but see the way the artist painted it? Lots of colour variation and details:
    img4b5f33c74e290.jpg

    You also have a lot of unnecessary tris in that wireframe.

    Like everyone else said though, keep it up. You'll only get better (:
  • chrisradsby
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    chrisradsby polycounter lvl 7
    Honestly, 1 year of practice should be enough to reach a professional level especially when exposed to other people with the same kind of spirit. If you're not landing jobs you should ask yourself why.

    These are the most common reasons you land jobs:

    + Skill
    - Artistic
    You show great artistic skill using a breadth of basic skills like color-theory, composition and material definition to your advantage. Creating good-looking and creative things using simple means.
    - Technical
    You show good technical skill, modeling, modular workflow, shaders, lighting setups and understanding of optimization and what's reasonable for your portfolio pieces.

    Being Artistic, creative and technical sure is the best way to go about it. ^^
    But you get what I mean right? You can see people create really awesome stuff and leave a nice impression without being all that good technically. It's up to you to learn what the difference between your work and their work is and the best way to do it is just to analyze and ask questions. :thumbup: :)

    + Networking
    Do you know enough people? It'll make life easier.

    Quickly looking through your Portfolio I see that you have

    13.500 tris for a Terran Marine and a 4096x4096 texture AND 2048x2048.

    This is way too much in every way. I feel like every piece you have could use another proper lighting-pass to make em look better. The material-definition needs some work.

    Right now I feel like your environment stuff is the best stuff you've got, but you need to take it further. Actually completing a scene with all the props and stuff, the industry always needs environment and prop artists. Deciding to focus on that could be a really good thing. I know I did. :)

    The trees, the barrels, the grass, the fantasy house and the dungeon looks good :) But your portfolio is actually suffering because of your characters. The Nurgle Dreadnought is the worst one I think. Take it out! And put your environment stuff at the top.

    I wish you good luck in your job hunt , don't give up! Work hard and believe in yourself. :thumbup:
  • chakkrit
    This is student to student. First thing is I totally empathise with you. Completely.

    But I must say that all of the above comments are right and they're critiques are valid. I don't think your bus is crappy. I thought it was pretty good when I first saw it actually. You've got a lot of potential man, don't allow people to make preconceptions based on how your describe yourself. It gives a negative vibe. No one is going to as enthused about your own work as you.

    If you think your bus is crappy, then why do you? If you know why you don't like it, then make those changes. I know what I create is by no means amazing. But I upload my best effort, and I'm not ashamed by that. I upload it to get feedback and see how I can make my work better. Because if you don't ask you don't learn. But no one is going to rip you for trying. Be confident, and persevere. I'm sure you'll get somewhere.

    With regards to feeling like looser of the class, I'm in a similar boat. But I see my peers as healthy rivals. They are your immediate competition after all.
    Sometimes I see some of my old pieces from a couple years ago and it's laughable. But that's a good sign! It means I can see how much better I've become. I know how much a few rejections can knock the wind out of you. But don't forget to ask these companies why you're not suitable. Take on board their feedback. Recently I've found communities like this are your best friend. We're all here to learn and better ourselves. Keep working hard and your portfolio will be a labour of your love. So get that chin up bud. Hope this has helped you. Even if only a little.
  • Mrskullface
    I think having a bad attitude about your art is the first thing that will hamper it. I think do without the negativity about your own art, focus on making it good, check out peoples sites, look up tuts, post and gain crits. Try to really figure out what your work is lacking and try to fix it.
  • chronic
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    chronic polycounter lvl 7
    When you apply for a job in art, you are not competing against the other applicants. Your work is being compared to that of current employees. It either has to be on the same level of quality as the work being produced at the studio, or has to show the potential to get there.

    Confidence is important, but if you cant objectively compare yourself to other artists it doesn't really matter. As in, if your art is not very good it doesn't matter how confident you are in it.

    Your work is decent for entry level positions, the Bus shows much better your potential than anything on your website. 2 or 3 more pieces like that would go a long way to your career prospects.
  • sipher3325
    1) NEVER talk negatively about your stuff. Sell the crap out of it.

    2) NEVER stop referring to yourself as a student and don't compare your work to people that you went to school with.

    3)Like others have said before your environment stuff seems to be the strongest so maybe focus on that. If that is going to be the case then you need to create some stronger pieces. Right now your stuff doesn't really stand out.

    4) I would pick a studio or two that you really like and take a look at their concept art. Then create a scene based on that. Don't just copy what they have in game already. Make your stuff unique and even better if possible.

    If you can recreate scenes based on their concept work then that will be your golden ticket into the chocolate factory. I've seen work before.
  • Olli.
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    Olli. polycounter lvl 6
    i agree 100% what chronic said. The bus is probably the best of your assets.

    Most of your assets seem to suffer from a bad case of last-gen. The weirdest thing i see going on is that you have very low poly characters, but then your texture sizes are up in the 2000s. Really none of the characters you have in your portfolio require more than a 1024x1024 texture size
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter
    Make the same bus with a 1024 and it'll convince a lot more Art leads. Gotta show you can handle working with given specs, you can go crazy sometimes, as I did on some of my portfolio pieces like everyone, but have some that are useable in an actual game.

    And making threads like this just reminds me of those beautiful girls on FB always saying they are ugly, for the sake of catching attention, which I'm pretty sure you are not doing on purpose here of course, otherwise I'd be tempted to tell you that you suck, just like you said.. :)
  • Fozwroth
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    Fozwroth polycounter lvl 6
    thanks to all for the great advice! I think I have some sort of game plan now at least :D portfolio all summer and then try again.

    I was goofing around with this abit.. I think a made it a little bit better?

    I downresed it to final 1024x1024. texture looks abit lowres up close but When I made it for the BF 2 engine I couldnt have flipped UV´s becouse the engine dont support that. So some UV space is not optimal.

    And yes I should really get rid of some things on my portfolio.. The dreadnought is actually the first highpoly to lowpoly model Ive done so it isnt quite up to date. Im going to sit down this weekend and look the site over.

    thanks again!

    shot1me.jpg

    shot2ve.jpg

    shot3e.jpg
  • Add3r
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    Add3r polycounter lvl 5
    TBH, I really enjoy the bus! I think it shows great texturing ability, and the ability to efficiently model in a low poly environment! If all of your portfolio pieces started being on this level, you can definitely land a JR job, if not higher with some practice!

    Ask yourself these questions:
    Where do I want to be 5yrs from now?
    What position in the game industry do I enjoy most and thrive artistically most in?
    What type of Development would I enjoy more (like Mobile, Online, or a Larger AAA style studio)?
    What are my goals and what can I do to achieve these goals?
    What am I willing to do, to get where I want to be?

    Setting goals is priority number 1. It is how we are able to go through life, setting expectations and goals and then striving to reach them. A great example. I am currently only 18yrs old, but already have shipped two games! And just about to ship a 3rd! They may not be the greatest games, or the prettiest out there, but they are shipped titles on my resume and pieces for my portfolio (which I desperately need to put together still). I had my first 3D and Design job at a local mobile studio 2 weeks out of high school, the reason: I set goals and I pushed as hard as I possibly could, every single day of my life, until I reached them. I am currently resigning from my current position to focus on school and my portfolio to hopefully move up to a AAA studio here in So.Cal. but the morale of the story: Set goals, and be dedicated, and you WILL reach them. And when you do, set goals way beyond your skill set and way beyond where you can see yourself, and then wake up everyday trying to become that perfect artist or that perfect designer... And you will. It just takes time and patience, as well as being dedicated. This industry is Dog Eat, Dog. It can be ruthless, just keep your chin up man! :) You have definite potential and your bus render above definitely shows it! Practice, practice, practice.

    Some people, including me, are not born with that natural talent, and I am not saying you werent! All I am saying is, some people just fall into place, and you are still falling man, you will land in your place, just gotta work and wiggle your way there! Keep it up man, and start a sketchbook here on PC, feedback is an artist's best friend :)

    Cheers!
  • Fozwroth
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    Fozwroth polycounter lvl 6
    thanks! already 3 shipped games thats pretty cool :D

    I have some new ideas that I want to start working on this weekend and Im going to start a thread or just a scetchbok to dump it all in when the early stages are done. Ive accepted the fact that working on my portfolio during the summer is not so bad, I think atleast it will get me further than keep applying for jobs.

    I will walk away with some recomendations from my internship so i guess thats something to ^^
  • BrendtheCow
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    BrendtheCow polycounter lvl 7
    Your portfolio is looking pretty solid! I agree with the critiques of the dreadnaught. If you don't want to remove it entirely from your portfolio, go back to the sculpting phase and push it quite a bit further. I'd say that if a paycheck is important to you while you look for a job that inspires you creatively, look into military simulation. It's a bit monotonous, though, so consider yourself warned :]

    Also, if you're looking for inspiration then Hazardous is your man: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1569240&postcount=75
  • krimzondestiny
    Self deprecation is crippling and destructive. My only critique is on your attitude. I've literally seen good artists talk themselves out of being successful because of how harsh they were to themselves. Seriously, it will destroy your work. I would say keep plugging away on the work, but the real project right now should be why you insist on feeling the way you do. Analyze what's creating those feelings and create a plan to either cut those elements out of your life or deal with them.

    Also, consider this book the textbook for the process:

    artnfear.jpg
    Amazon.com: Art & Fear: Observations On the Perils (and Rewards) of Artmaking (9780961454739): David Bayles, Ted Orland: Books

    I would recommend getting it and reading it.


    I totally agree. "Art and Fear" is an excellent read (I've done it twice). It's a little difficult changing your mentality. The best tool for it for me is remembering that because this book was written, there is at least one other person who feels the way I do.
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