Compensation for crunch in the games industry?
polycounter lvl 10
Hey guys!
Since you Polycounters always gave me good advice and helped me out many times before (for which i am very grateful), I wanted to share my situation with you and ask you for your opinion.
So heres a background summary for clarity:
I'm a junior 3D animator at a small company for almost a year now (almost as long as the company exists). I am the only full time employed animator there.
The project I am working on is planned to be presented in about a month, so the game must be as close to completion as possible until that deadline.
Since the 2nd of Jannuary the crunching phase has been announced and we are working an average of 10 to 11 hours a day and 6 (for some 7) days a week.
The crunch phase is planned for Jannuary but it probably will extend until the end of February as well, because a trailer is to be made for that game.
The compensation for this crunch period is 2 days off.
So I want to know if this kind of compensation is a industry standard and i should get used to that fact or is this an exception?
Need I grow a pair and accept it or is this an exception of rules?
thanks for your help in advance
Since you Polycounters always gave me good advice and helped me out many times before (for which i am very grateful), I wanted to share my situation with you and ask you for your opinion.
So heres a background summary for clarity:
I'm a junior 3D animator at a small company for almost a year now (almost as long as the company exists). I am the only full time employed animator there.
The project I am working on is planned to be presented in about a month, so the game must be as close to completion as possible until that deadline.
Since the 2nd of Jannuary the crunching phase has been announced and we are working an average of 10 to 11 hours a day and 6 (for some 7) days a week.
The crunch phase is planned for Jannuary but it probably will extend until the end of February as well, because a trailer is to be made for that game.
The compensation for this crunch period is 2 days off.
So I want to know if this kind of compensation is a industry standard and i should get used to that fact or is this an exception?
Need I grow a pair and accept it or is this an exception of rules?
thanks for your help in advance
Replies
A great manager will make you WANT to work to achieve all the goals without cutting back on everything, regardless of compensation. They will be completely transparent about what they wished they could have, but what they think they can realistically deliver.... and if they can get YOU on board, you'll bear down and do it... getting it to the highest level of quality you possibly can, regardless of the deadline.
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Bad managers just demand everyone work overtime.
So you mean that this is a standard and i should get used to it?
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with crunching and I see that overtime is something that comes when one is passionate about the project.. I also get that it should come naturally.
I just don't know wether its compensation is something that is a standard or a lucky exception in this industry.
thanks again
edit:
sorry if you meant something else, could please explain again?
Nobody can force you to do or otherwise penalise you for not working more than a standard working week, however. EA got in a lot of trouble a few years back for fundamentally making large amounts of non-compensated crunch compulsory. If you feeling like your willingness to work extra hours is being exploited, just don't work them.
crunch in some form will be a part of the vast majority of game jobs.
excessive crunch will be a part of jobs with poor managers.
where i work now i've been here a year and have had no forced crunches. I have put in
extra hours myself when i've felt i've fell behind on a project. but i have yet to be
asked to work overtime. the other art team has in this one year had 2 crunch periods that i recall. i think each one was about 2 weeks long. and was only 2 extra hours a day. one was working thru lunch hour. and the company paid for everyones lunch during that hour. and one hour late. so even during crunch people could go to work
at 8am and go home at 6pm. and the crunch periods did not take our weekends.
i think if you find yourself crunching more than a month at a time, and your crunch is crazy 12-18 hour days. you should think about what is best for you. and what you are willing to put up with.
Your sallary is also half in usd of what i landed in my very first in house job. so i personaly would not crunch for those dollars. and as for 2 day off compensatiopn. lets say you do 10 hour days. 6 days a week, for 2 months. figuring generic 4 week months
roughly 46 days. at 10 hours a day
460 work hours in that 2 months thats the same as 57 and a half normal 8 hour work days
so you are pretty much giving them 11.5 days of your free time in that period. and they reward you with 2 days off.
again, how much you believe in this company and the project can drive you to put out more than you recieve. its all up to you.
It makes it a little harder for them to ask "why do you think you deserve a raise?" when just a week ago they were praising your hard work.
At the very least, I would see about getting that jr. tag knocked off at the end of the crunch if they don't want to award you compensation at the end since you are the only full time animator.
To sum it up:
Ambershee, I see your point: while cruching is a standard, compensation is not. It depends on the management of the company. Paying overtime and/or giving days off is also national law in Austria.
Rhinokey, thanks for your advice man, it helped a lot. You also say that it depends on the company and its management. Also that overtime often comes naturally when one believes in the company and the project and that I should decide if it's really worth it. About the salary, I have read many times now that entry salary is about 40k annualy..
Skankerzero, from what i've gathered, I too start to get that feeling haha
Justin_Meisse, what you say makes sense, but a raise is unfortunately not an option atm
fmnoor, you too say that it depends on the company and yea, it would be awesome to lose the jr. title
Thanks again for sharing your experience, you helped a lot!
At the moment i'll keep focusing on the project and give my best and after its finished i will think about my next steps..
If you're salary, then the compensation is the extra money you make while not at crunch. You still get paid for days that you wouldn't if you were hourly (like vacation, national/religious holidays, general days off).
And yeah, after a year it makes sense to ask for a raise too. Especially if a new project is starting, so you know they just signed a bunch of new funding.
When the project started the team was new, the company was new, the managers had to deal with the heat of a starting business, a pipeline had to be established etc. Plus it was my first 'real' project in games
I was just a bit confused on how things worked, thats why i started the thread. Anyways you helped a lot, thanks!
But if anyone wants to share more of anything, i'd love to read it!
prior experience gave the above
This. In the UK, I'm pretty sure you're legally entitled to it if you work over a certain amount of hours anyway....
Yeah I think british companies are legally obligated to feed you after a certain amount of hours.
I hope that in time overtime pay will become the standard and that "pride in the product" or "loyalty for the team" won't be abused as a reason for free labor.
actually a lot of stuff triggers that, maybe I've gotten too picky!
Crunch that lasts 1 to 2 months is acceptable for a small company which might not have lots of funds ready to quickly ramp up and hire more people.
I'm more forgiving when it comes to crunch with young companies because there's still so much to be planned and implemented pipeline and management wise. Although if you have any say in those decisions, however small, and people hear your opinion, it can be very rewarding.
For big companies and crunch I have extremely little understanding. If you can afford having a "campus" with gyms'n'whatnot then you should be able to afford kickass managers who can plan properly.
I'd say hang in there, Austria is small, and you're lucky you got a games job there where you can get some experience and didn't have to move somewhere else right away.
Seforin, Marks and Mathew O, yea, I have heard of that before. Some guys from Rockstars Vienna (which doesnt exist anymore for years now) kept telling stories about how many pizzas they had eaten over the years they worked there. I just didnt know that it was considered as compensation
Noodle! what you say makes sense, i agree. As long as crunch is not taken as granted..
Tortilla, i wondered that myself, eating pizza every day for months, i mean, thats gotta lead to overweight..
Justin, if you're in a position that allows you to be picky, I dont see why you shouldn't be
Kwramm, thanks for your advice man, i will definitely take it.
What makes you say that?
I always thought that if you worked with more people, crunch would be better, because of a stronger team spirit and whatnot?
More people -> less spirit usually. As I see it the more specialized people get on the project and less they contribute to the whole the more they loose the sense of ownership and just start caring less.
Just my experience:
I felt that people get shuffled around a lot because of crunch. Having a big pool of people available allows just pushing resources around and using them where needed. The "team spirit" mostly happens when your team is small (not in the 40+ people animators team
Having tons of people crunching next to you also gives you this "factory/sweatshop" feel.
Depending on how the company handles crunch, you get the feeling you're bossed around from "those above" and that you're just a gear in a big machine (now if you're a junior in a team of 200, then this is just what you are! don't kid yourself about it). In a smaller company, chances are that hierarchies are flatter, contact with superiors may happen more often and longer and you may end up feeling less of being just a gear (you may still be one, but you might not feel so
In a small team you often have closer identification with the project. The feeling that your effort really counts is much stronger. (your effort may still count in a big project too, but it's harder to convince yourself of this in some cases). Thus crunch becomes more bearable because you get more of a sense that your contribution does matter.
Now those are just my observations. Could be totally different for you...
I find when there's too many people around I get little work done. I am too often doing support work, or just being endlessly "ninja-tasked" I usually do most of my ACTUAL work after 5pm.
I've found that small team crunchtime can be enormous fun, it creates a sort of "in the trenches together" feeling and can really help a team bond - especially if you're all sitting there swearing about management. It also creates opportunities for office sports like swivel chair racing, making comedy signs, drinking secret whiskey and rearranging people's monitors (well, if you're waiting for renders etc it does)
When there's 50 or 60 people in the room it doesn't realy work out the same and as said you end up with a sort of sweatshop vibe going on which nobody really enjoys.
My attitude to big chunks of overtime depends on who I'm working for, if it's a little startup company then it's something you have to accept as there often simply aren't enough resources available to get jobs done by working 8 hour days and I woudn't expect any financial compensation for putting in late nights (I wouldn't turn any down mind..).
In larger companies with multi-billion dollar backing I feel there's no excuse for putting your staff in that position unless there's a special occasion. Barring the odd disaster it really is down to bad management and poor planning (which is rife in many industries). In those cases I expect compensation in the form of actual money because I only had to do the overtime because of incompetence or because someone was trying to avoid spending money on resources.
All that said - I'm in the office for ten hours most days, I dont expect anything extra for that - I guess I'm in a similar situation to Jaquechoi in that as soon as everyone else shows up for work I'm on firefighting duty (ninja-tasked! I love that. I'll see about getting my job title altered)
It's one thing putting in a bit extra to finish off something, but beng forced to consistently work for no money or a slice of soggy pizza on a long term basis, is a bit charles dickens in my mind.
Do not be exploited, it's only a job.
My situation is a lot clearer with your help!