Do most studios solely use just one 3D package?
polycounter lvl 11
Like many of you I'm sure, I scan over job listings every day. I'll often run across the infamous skills section of the posting to find, "Knowledge of industry standard 2D and 3D (xxxx preferred.)"
I can more than get my way around Max, but I honestly hate using it in comparison to Maya. Because of this, I'll often overlook listings that prefer Max.
So do these studios actually only use their "preferred" package? Is it unrealistic to expect a studio to let you use maya when they prefer max?
I can more than get my way around Max, but I honestly hate using it in comparison to Maya. Because of this, I'll often overlook listings that prefer Max.
So do these studios actually only use their "preferred" package? Is it unrealistic to expect a studio to let you use maya when they prefer max?
Replies
But as Justin said, yes, it's unrealistic. You should expect to have to bite the bullet and use whatever 3D package they use. Be it Modo, Max, Maya, Xsi, Blender, whatever.
I've heard that too, I was at first surprised by the number of artist I hear use modo, I wonder if autodesk has in deal for switching 3ds max license with maya for businesses or anything.
At Naughty Dog we are forced to use Maya only due to all the tools being integrated with it and how big animation is here. Also they wouldn't want to have to pay for Max licnesses when they could just stick with Maya.
But whatever. Max and Maya arent substantially different. Work with it longer than 2 weeks and you'll quickly get over whatever gripes you might've had.
But ya. It has to do with internal tools.
And if you are a modeler ... "hating" on max is not really going to help you anyways, since learning it will most likely open your eyes on modeling technique 10x more efficient than anything Maya
And yes, almost all teams use only one package because of tools. However!! One could very well use Max for highpoly modeling and Maya for anything in-game related - just like Mudbox or Zbrush complement Maya/Max. The problem is that it is hard to justify the price of a Max, Maya or XSI license just for HP modeling. (even tho I personally think it is totally worth giving a modeler what he or she is confortable with, since it means no modeling tool request whatsoever over the whole course of the project)
ErichWK and Autocon: I didn't realize those studios "went both ways" haha. Thanks for the insight.
And just to be clear, I know Max... I had to use it everyday on my last job. I just prefer Maya. Not sure how I'm "hating" on it.
We must don't forget that when we go to an interview, we are interviewers aswell. I would not work in a company where i would be using tools i'm not confortable with.
BTW, In too many job offers they may ask Maya or Max because they are their main tool, but what they really are looking for, is the quality.
Tools are tools, and what matters is what we do with them. It's easy for a modeller.
I've only worked with games in Sweden, worked a tad on a short animation series in Japan but that was Maya..heh
maybe you guys don't have too much insight on the animation department in your companies?
I mean, sure Maya is fine and all, but the way you can just cut and paste, load and save, drag and pull animations and characters in Motionbuilder, clearly makes it superior for games I think.
Sure, if a studio already has tools and exporters made for Maya, then obviously they'd stick with it trough production..
I don't want to come of as a sales person for Motionbuilder, but I've been fed Motionbuilder propaganda during my time at work here in Sweden (where, I'm told, most if not all studios use Motionbuilder for animation) and actually come to enjoy animating in it.
What a bitch
if you are too insecure about your ability as an artist to even consider using another 3d package then you probably shouldn't be applying for work.
Seriously Rick_D? Does the D stand for dick?
~ I'm gonna stand in and defend Rick's statement here. Honestly Pior, and Maze kind of add to the point too that if you know how to model you can hired straight up and expected to learn on the job. If you're so petrified of having to learn a new program on the being hired then maybe you don't want the job enough.
My studio is a Maya using studio, and I learned Max, but they hired me and I learned in a few weeks. Honestly, doing a 9to5pm in any new program will have you comfortable with it in no time regardless of how much of a fast learner you are.
yes.
yeah yeah, boring joke.. I tend to kill threads anyways, lets end it on a dick in ass joke this time
I recently had to make some statues based on unrigged character models - I just grabbed the characters, quickly skinned them to a similar rig that was already animated, make the texture look like stone and optimize it a bit, pick a frame of animation I like then collapse the stack - blammo, done. No asking someone to export it to OBJ or asking IT if they had a Maya license I could use.
but really, in this day and age, who doesn't know how to use one of the big 2?
Seriously? If you prefer to use Blender, studios won't count that against you? I'm not accusing, mind you, I'm curious because it's my favorite tool. I've used Max for several years, but Blender just feels right for me.
The skills that count aren't embedded in the app or written its help file. When it comes down to it, the better artist will get the job rather than whichever happens to know max. You can teach an artist to use an app in a few days/weeks but you can't train a app user to be an artist...
Unfortunately the job might go to someone who is just as good of an artist but knows the studios app of choice a little better than you do. But that shouldn't keep you from applying.
it would only matter if you *refused* to use the tool they'd like you to use.
Well, the thing is most places will be open minded enough to let you use whatever tools get the job done. But say everyone uses Maya, and you decide to use Max, then you're basically asking them to spend a few thousand dollars on you so that you can have two licenses. Sometimes a studio will already have a bunch of floating licenses for the software you want to use, so that won't be a problem. But for the most part it's hard to justify buying a license just for you if everyone else is already using a different package.
Blender however is different because it's free. So I doubt anyone will have any objections.
But even then you wouldn't be allowed to actually commit blender files. It would have to be in whatever package everyone is using before it goes on to the next guy.
Personally, I've gotten by with just basic working knowledge of Max and Maya at every studio I've worked for, and done the brunt of my modeling work in Lightwave, and for the past 5-6 years or so, Modo. This is onsite and freelance, though I haven't worked at any particularly large studios, and all the places I've worked for have been understanding about software choice. Like Pior says, I think its generally more productive to let an artist work in the software they are comfortable, even though you can "pick up" a new app fairly quickly, it could take months or years to really be as efficient as you are in your app of choice - and that is wasted time and money at the studio, so the software cost for a license of Max or Modo could be relatively small in that situation.
If I have to do anything technical, scene setup, bakes etc, that will be done in the "Studio" app, but using a "Modeling" app isn't really a big deal. As long as my final files are set up in a clean, well organized Max or Maya file or XSI or whatever, it will never be an issue. If I was uploading my modo files to the SVN or whatever, clearly that would be a logistical problem.
For rigging and animation, you're going to have to use the studio's app of choice, but for high/low/uv work, there will likely be more slack as to what you can use. This is highly dependent on the studio though.
At some point its just basic economics, say as a studio, the cost for an artist is $6000 a month. Now, lets say your artist could be producing art content at a 20% more efficient rate if he was using his preferred software and lets assume a license of APP X costs $2000. How long does it take for the reduce productivity to outweigh the cost of the additional software?
Thats not even thinking about the additional time of other artist(s) who have to help get the new guy up to speed. IMO over time, it just isn't worth it. You can't just look at the immediate cost of a certain software package.
Beyond all that, what is REALLY important is having clearly defined workflows and file standards for final deliverable assets. Just because everyone uses Max, doesn't mean JohnyAssHat isn't going to commit totally fucked up max files or PSDs that nobody else can work with. So this idea that "Oh everyone uses the same app, it will be easy to edit Artist X's work" isn't really that realistic. Much more important than the app they create the content in, is how the final files are delivered. Its a workflow and documentation problem, not a software problem.
I knew a guy that did this once. He did not last long
Which is kind of OK because I'm not really sure how he got the job in the first place, he seemed a bit disconnected from things.
Guys... I KNOW MAX. I used it for over a year on my last job. I just prefer maya. Please stop assuming I'm scared/insecure.
Typically, however, you'll find that most companies will stick to one 3D package. It's much easier, and cost effective, to maintain one software package and any associated proprietary plugins/exporters/etc. Additionally, if your pipeline revolves around multiple people touching one asset, you'll find a need to stick with one 3D package, for time management reasons... and sanity's sake.
Also... +1 on this.
Blender is a great, free, way to get your feet wet with 3D. Past that... aside from very select studios, if you're not experienced with Max/Maya, and rarely XSI, you are doing yourself a huge disservice. If you can learn Blender, you can definitely learn any of the major 3D Packages.
This is only really true if you need exporters and pipelines from every app, I'm not sure if you read my post, but if your end result of using X+Z app is a standardized, common final deliverable file in your main app, you don't have any of these concerns, not to mention the economic/productivity benefits from simply letting an artist use what they are most productive in.
You don't need to have 4 or 5 different exporters, that's really not rational, nor is using one app exclusively automatically a money saving proposition.
At the end of the day, you're right though, its down to what your managers decide.
I think scale often plays a part in these situations too, if you have a team of 100 artists, and 98 of them are Max guys, the other two are going to be SOL. If you have a team of 8 artists, 4 are Max, 2 Maya, 2 Modo/Whatever, I think that situation is generally going to be a lot more flexible. There are exceptions however, Blizzard for example(from what I've heard from Pior and others) seems to be very lenient on what software their artists use.
Again let me stress that I'm talking high/low/uv work here, stuff that is very easily transferred between apps. When we get to more technical aspects of baking, rigging, animation and any other engine-specific work, you'll most likely be using the main studio app. Just think about it, artists are already doing this with Mudbox, Zbrush, various UV editors, why would it be an issue to use an app like Modo, Silo, or even Maya to do your modeling work in if you're more productive there?
Don't say this, some scrub will get this idea in his head and "learn" every piece of software without actually learning how to model...but he'll be able to boxmap spheres in all of them.
It's better to learn one piece of software intimately while learning all of the advanced tools and techniques available for modeling, than it is to get skin-deep on 5 of them. If you know Max/Maya/XSI/etc inside out, it's not going to take you much time to transfer your skills to a new piece of software.
But it takes a very long time to learn how to model/texture/etc well.
When you're learning how to do game art, you have two parallel skill sets - art skills (modeling, painting, observation, color theory, etc) and technical skills (where the buttons are/etc).
The folks that learn 3 different packages for 4 months each, will, at the end of a year, have nearly no art skills, but many duplicated technical skills. Meanwhile, the dude or lady who spends that year learning in a single program is going to spend the first 4 months learning what the first person did, and then 8 months surpassing that person's ability in every aspect.
At the end of that year, one of those people is going to have a solid portfolio foundation, and the other person is going to have 2 extra words on their resume.
Learn whichever your more comfortable with and use that day in and day out.
Then, learn the others just enough if you had to switch it wouldn't be a huge blow.
Then, go back to your program of choice and have fun.
Probably pop into the others every once in a while to stay current. Checking out the demo versions each year is probably enough.
Like EQ said and I've said before in threads like this, it really depends on where you plug into the pipeline. If you're at the beginning at the modeling stage its pretty easy to feed in input from any app most of the time. A mesh is a mesh and there are a lot of ways to transfer it around. Once you get deeper in the pipe it gets harder to jump around.
If you're an animator your studio might embrace Motion Builder which can act like a bridge or a animation package all on its own that talks to both Maya and Max. If they structure their output to come from MotionBuilder you can use whichever your comfortable with.
If you're an FX guy or level layout artist you're probably using some very proprietary tech in conjunction with a very specific set of apps.
Also there is a lot of talk as if a pipeline is well established and inflexible. I've only worked at one studio but we have a lot of control over the pipeline. No one really minds us figuring out another way to work, showing it off and getting it approved.
If you get hired to use one app but prefer another you could put in some extra effort, weight the costs and benefits, write up a proposal and suggest it. Just be adept at reading the response you don't want to be seen as "that pushy guy" that is trying to convince everyone to switch apps but that you're laying some additional pipe along side the main pipe that helps you and others like you that might be future hires.
Vig speaks the truth. In my opinion after you understand and have developed techniques and skills in one program and are comfortable using that software's tools in your workflow, it's very easy to switch 3d packages. All it takes a little bit of research and to not be over intimidated by a different UI. In the end they all do the same thing, there is no "better" program.
Off the top of my head as far as 3d applications are concerned, I use 3dsmax, ZBrush, UDK, Sculptris, RoadKill * though I need to explore 2012's newer uv functions to see if its even needed any more* , fragmotion, motion builder, and on the rarest of rare occasions I have opened Blender to do some work. Thats just what I remember at the moment.
To mirror others statements, you gotta know at leas the basics of some big packages, even if you do most of your main work in other packages. And even if you know one of the big 3, you are most likely going to need other applications to fulfill a work requirement.