Retopology in Maya
polycounter lvl 18
Hey guys,
I like to think of myself as a native Max user, as I have have used that application for a number of years and feel very comfortable working in it. However a few years ago I had to make the switch to Maya and although I have learned to appreciate some of the functionality that's made available I have never been particularly happy with my retopologising work flow.
I have been using Nex to shrink wrap, and modify my low poly mesh to fit with my high poly surfaces however I have found that plug in unstable and often causes fatal crashes.
What alternatives are you Maya users working with? Ideally I want to work in as few application as possible so scripts, plug-ins and general work flow advice are appreciated however I am open to the suggestion of alternative software.
I like to think of myself as a native Max user, as I have have used that application for a number of years and feel very comfortable working in it. However a few years ago I had to make the switch to Maya and although I have learned to appreciate some of the functionality that's made available I have never been particularly happy with my retopologising work flow.
I have been using Nex to shrink wrap, and modify my low poly mesh to fit with my high poly surfaces however I have found that plug in unstable and often causes fatal crashes.
What alternatives are you Maya users working with? Ideally I want to work in as few application as possible so scripts, plug-ins and general work flow advice are appreciated however I am open to the suggestion of alternative software.
Replies
he does plan on releasing it, but he hasn't updated tools3d or posted on cgsociety in ages
For retopology I've gone from using ZBrush's built in tools, to Silo, to most recently 3D-Coat's retopology tools. It adds another program, but it's a program that's got full-time development support and is very reliable.
Also, I think it now comes with your own Phil Nolan bobblehead you can put on your desk.. :P
Marine I saw that video too.. looked great. I heard from a guy at work that the sculpting retopology script he was using is part of the Sony shared resources and that it originated from Guerrilla so its unlikely that particular one will see the light of day (unless he is wrong).
East.. so 3d coat?
Sadly I had better tools via polyboost years ago than seem available (stable) for maya.. but I cant believe there arent more options than the ones discussed here.!!
Still, I am a Topogun convert! So good...
Not being a fan of Nex or Make Live, I use Topogun for retopology. It's got a few drawbacks (lack of extrude) but for the most part it's good and fast for retopology. 3dcoat might have a few more tools than Topogun, but if you just want to retopologize, a Topogun license is cheaper.
As far as workflow is concerned, it's really quick to import your HP from Zbrush to Topogun with polypaint intact. If you make changes to the HP you can just re-import it under the retopo mesh without anything being messed up. Exporting back out of Topogun to maya is as simple as an export and import.
I would say give the trials of both a chance and see which you like.
I think that Maya Live is pretty good. What's missing is a quick way to build geometry, like the Extend tool from Max (here's a video of how it works ). How hard would it be to script a tool like that?
Pior + Frump , yeah I am going to try Topogun out
undoz, the question is why the hell hasnt some one scripted that yet (other than Nex)
PolyHertz, thanks for the suggestion I dl'd it yesterday and I am waiting for a chance to give his scripts a whirl.
You can use the live object feature to get part way there, use it in conjunction with artisan brush tools and you'll get better control.
The Naughty Dog guys made a script for their pipeline, looks pretty sweet.
http://vimeo.com/4960185
I do not remember exactly but maybe there is something to do in this way...
I am watching the video on Topogun and they is a cool thing about drawing curve on the model and then to get the polygonal version...
And they are also paint tool in Maya...
I didn't start creating next gen character then I do not have reason to create it for yet...
But I am sure they are a cool tool to develop with melscript on Maya!!!
This is what I've done in the past as well, mixed in with a bit of the various sculpt geometry tools or the average vertex command to correct things I've done previously when I'm further along in the process. Like ivars said though, its slow.
Made a quick demonstration video about it, and it's the first time I've ever recorded anything like this so it might be a bit blergh.
If you do watch it, go for the 720p version.
[ame]
Thats awesome East. I use 3DC for retopo and never knew you could just draw the 1 line w/ stroke and have it fill in the number of sides. +1 vote for 3DC or even Silo.
Gotta try topogun soon
Although it's wise to put your high freq detail like pores wrinkles etc. on a separate layer that you turn off when exporting the mesh - as decimation will try to keep those small forms too and then the result can turn into a mess.
Also, that Naughty Dog presentation is pure awesomeness. I'd really like to get Rich Diamant's tools for our Maya modelers, they look very cool.
That's nice, but - at least for me - most of the retopo work is spent on precisely retracing forms, having to build highres faces mostly. In that field, regular poly based modeling tools are required, to frequently redirect edge loops and rework the structure. The stroke/drawing based tools fail here miserably and you need to get back to the good old basics.
But neither Topogun nor the integrated stuff in zbrush or 3DCoat is good enough for that, which is why I prefer to work in Max (and others would probably choose Maya).
Even so, when looking at the meshes used in higher quality CG movies I find it quite a bit difficult to believe an external program like TopoGun and 3D-COAT won't be of use even to you guys. I mean, there's no black magic about it, we're both still dealing with polygons.
Actually going in and using one of these standalone retopo apps will quickly reveal that they are quite powerful. And ive been modeling in maya for many many years, and yeah it has great tools, but for re-topology id have to be crazy to neglect a program that lets me complete my work in a fraction of the time, with less effort.
I have been trying 3dcoat and topogun, interesting applications however I am not sold on either after my initial usage with them so I plan on spending more time learning them.
tbh I would really like something comparable to wrap it, http://www.matt-clark.co.uk/spe.php?o=163
Every sign points to games catching up eventually. Already you can see face geometry as detailed as what we're working with in games like Uncharted 2. Of course this pushes us to try to go even further
We do have several Topogun licences, but in the end it just turned out that Max and Wrapit works even better for me... Others use Nex, yet others have sticked with Topogun. I'm not against any of these
I've been beta testing Topogun for years
Check this out.
http://vimeo.com/7002598
Sure its a very rough test model and a very lowpoly retopo. But see all these tools ? Cuts, edge redirection and all that ... Sure it's quite a paradigm shift since TG doesnt really flow like a regular 3D program does. But once you assign your shortcuts properly (I use only a few, since all the rest is smartly click-drag driven) it's very impressive. One of those things hard to explain on paper, you really just got to try it!
As another example : if someone you work with uses nex for retopo ... here again, someone is missing something! Nex seems great on paper, but quadraw is unable to close tris, forcing the user the exit nex mode, fill in the gaps, then go to nex again. Blergh!
Anyone interested in a real-life topogun tut letme know. It really is that good.
I would love to see one, i sue it quite a bit but always open to new techniques, one thing that is of interest to me, is if you can take a model you already made, and bring it into topogun and conform it to your ref mesh, i find that sometimes once ive begun to rebuild a bunch of meshes, that at some point if i export them or change ref, that things get screwed up down the line, usually strange scale issues, even when properly matched in another app. but a tutorial like this would be great, always like to see new stuff.
I think I might be missing some of the optimal workflow here and I would truly like to understand. I also want to use the brush selection to move groups of verts but was unable ? is it possible to do this ?
When working in it I found that I created a good deal of additional edges that I didnt want, but I have put that down to not being used to the control scheme.
It seems to me that the added benefit of re topology in your native app is that you can use primitives (shrinkwrapped or live) to speed up creation aswell as the standard range of poly modelling tools. How fast are you working in that retopo video you just posted ? Do you have any shortcut recommendations I could try ?
Again, I've been a beta tester for years, probably for as long as you've known about the app or maybe even more, I consider myself familiar with it.
I've only said two things here:
- the sketching stuff is good for lowres, simple stuff; but games are moving beyond that very faaast
- the other tools and environment aren't up to the level that you'd get with a fully rounded 3D app equipped to handle the wrapping part; hence my move to Wrapit.
I really appreciate Topogun's abilities and it has helped us out in many though jobs, but it needs to cover a few more bases to become better at what it does.
For example does it have freely movable lights by now? Can I put and manually UV edit a custom texture - actual concept art - on top of a simple reference model to create a guide for more complex retopo work? Handle multiple objects easily?
Simple stuff like this has been a big setback for me, not having the ability to properly bring out surface details by using a more contrasted light setup. And in Maya or Max it's already there. This entire concept of keeping all your geometry and operations wrapped on top of another at all times has a lot more to offer and explore...
Could you post some before/after pictures of what you are dealing with ? I am having a hard time figuring out what you need. Then again I am not saying that TG is the only thing to use ; but seeing how greatly it improved my retopo turnaround as opposed to just using tools from a regular package, I have a hard time imagining it couldn't be beneficial for you too!
I see you mention overlapping concept art to follow for retopo. But in the scenarios we all think about here, there is no need for that because the details are already on the source mesh to be retopoed. That really makes me thing we are not talking about the same think here!
Or maybe you are mean flow lines roughly painted over a screenshot, that you want to follow for the final retopo? When I have things like that to do, I simply open the ref picture in an image viewer program, and make it half-transparent using Ghost-it, then work from that on top of my 3D.
Oooooor, you might just be talking about modeling in general, and not the very specific task that is retop of sculpt or highres hardsurface model, to a lower density cage ?
I am a bit confused! Unconfuse me! :P