Pectorals, deltoids, and trapezius look very weak and vertically squashed. I know you're working with some tweaked/nonhuman proportions but it gives the impression of a poorly attached, awkward arm. A very skinny/light human in fighting shape looks something like:
the strong, locked in structure of the pecs/delts/trap onto the arm and shoulder is a big part of what people recognize as fighters. The muscles can be small if you want a light, athletic character, but without the sturdy-but slender shape all around where the arm attaches -- all the muscles that throw the arm forward or couch it for a hit -- he looks like he did bicep curls at the rabbit gym but has never thrown a punch in his life, and couldnt without his arm breaking off.
curve his spine a bit he has a little of the "flat as a board" syndrome gong on atm, will make him look much more natural as well. bending the elbows ever so slightly will help this too.
I've seen this on the wolfire blog, great sculpt, looking forward to see it rigged in an alpha release
EDIT: Maybe one thing, the chest to stomach part seems a bit flat, I'd personally like to see it more defined. Well, what woogity said basically! But great work man
I think the cloth should have a bit more spec than the fur. I've never seen light catch a rabbit's fur, but i've certainly seen specular on more canvasy fabric. Your spec has a ton of good detail but i dont think there's a strong enough material definition. The leather definitely needs brightening up -- it's getting lost in the noise of its detailing, even the darkest/most worn parts of it should be lighter on your spec map than the fur.
On the diffuse, in the end this is a matter of style, but i'd like to see some sharper details on the cloth and musclature creased in a bit. I know realistically speaking the fur would obscure this but leaning torward a more manga/comic stylization (because, i mean, ninja rabbits) might be a good idea; quick paintover for the kind of thing i mean.
Donno if this has been mentioned, but hes back looks pretty flat. I realize hes covered in fur, but it'll need to be quite thick in order to cover the deformation of ex. scapula, trapezius etc (yes hes a bunny, but the bodys pretty human).
Hey guys, thanks for the awesome feedback. I boosted the spec a lot, but it tends to look a bit glassy with our current shaders so I tried to keep it reserved still:
Ninjas! Awesome work... the mesh looks great, IMO also looks great lit in the engine (even without cast shadows). Soft and balanced, though maybe the toes would sit further back in a neutral standing pose... though I'm sure you'll get all that figured out in the animation.
Did a little paintover. Thought it could use some of the sort of black undercurrent of fur many rabbits have, changed up the pants a bit for interest and added some black stone beads on his bindings for the same. Lots of other tiny touches, probably too much, noticeable only if you flipbook it... also a bit of sharpening but mostly to combat the recompression.
I think he could work equally well as a main hero or random baddie in the game. Nice to get a further glimpse at Overgrowth.
I thought I'd just repost the crits I put in the comments before, so people can respond to those as well: (and I must say I'm somewhat at some of the useless comments in here. Only a few people actually have useful criticism!)
Hey Aubrey, I think it would really pay off if you were to actually seperate things like his armour and clothing. Right now everything looks like it was made out of one piece, and you're missing the overlap that the other method would give you. It also makes it easier and fast to work with, I think, so that's three reasons to do it
I think you use mudbox, so sadly you'll be missing many of the tools that I use for that sort of stuff in Zbrush (and I've only just begun exploring the program myself), and you'll have to prepare things in advance for the base model.
I also miss some more substantial mid-level detail. You've got your overal shape, your body with your limbs, but between that and the fine detail there's very little form there. Very little hinting at muscles underneath the fur, and so on......
Except for on the chest, where I think you actually overdid it somewhat
For some absolutely wonderful sculpts of rabbits (or hares, as I think the case may be), check out Beth cavener Stichter at http://www.followtheblackrabbit.com/
They're not good reference for the detail, but I really think capturing the underlying shapes, and the clumps of fur is much more important than the detail anyway.
Another thing to consider is that --especially as an indie-- it's certainly not a bad idea to stand out, graphically. If you simplify things down to a few iconic shapes (as in the example of Beth Stichter, or Neox's stuff for Airborn, etc...), that might make you stand out in a market oversaturated with a grimy style.
Wow Pea, those are some nice sculpts. Totally agree with you on being great reference, and a good approach to this kind of thing. Fur is always a bugger to sculpt in any kind of convincing way, so a stylised approach is a good one.
Did a new model this week. I think I improved a few things. I tried to get more definition bewteen objects, although to really make stuff stand out I would have to add more geo, and I don't really want to go much above this:
hey i hate to let mr mighty pea down so her ya go on constructive crits.
okedoke. i like this bunny, really do, the new fur texture is very nice, tho a bit desaturated as said before. Also, the eyes need alot of work, the characters life and personality comes from them, not something you want to be misinterpreted, so spend some time on them, id recommend checking out Katzeimsack's dominance war 4 entry, dude does killer eyes. as for the proportions, the arms are a bit cylindrical which kills the realism a bit, also if you give the elbow a bit of a bend your riggers and animators will thank you, it will deform much more naturally, and is way easier to skin. similarly, the characters spine is stiff as a board, which makes him look very unnatural. lower his shoulders a little bit, and curve up that spine so he looks like he is carrying his weight. also you may want to adjust his leg and foot placement a bit he looks a bit off balance atm. i realy like whats going on in the new texture except for the eye, and the character has a good bit of personality already, luv dem bunniez
Thanks for the feedback! I will try boosting the saturation. As far as the pose, I think I will keep the arms extended in this case, because I think their arms will often be fully extended in the game (running on all 4's, punching)
I have given the spine a more natural curve on my next character, which I will post here when I make more progress.
I think that those sculptures are amazing, but I am pretty set in stone with the art direction. I hope that by the time our game comes out, people will have gotten enough stylized art direction, and that more realstic stuff will stand out.
Maybe this is dumb, but I am really confident of our tech, and so I would really like to go head-to-head with Id Tech 5 and CryEngine 3. Even if We fall short, it would be interesting to see how big that gap is.
I am planning on adding some alpha planes for the fur at a later date, especially on the back hair and the tail.
feedback greatly appreciated! This the first wolf character I have done, so I will probably be making more.
As people mentioned in the comment section from today's post, those spikes are really freaking weird. Also, is he fat? I think it looks a little bit to fat, especially considering wolfs are treated in the game as awesome soldiers I mean, they have their penis showing all the time, do you want more than that? And also, is he tanned?
He could also have some tattoos or warmarks, that would make him badasser
Other than that, I think the rabbits legs are a little bit too long, and it shows a lot more on the contrast image between the Rabbit and Wolf. I think they need to be shortened a little bit. I think the problem is under the knee.
awesome job on the rabbit, really nice
The wolf looks nice too but from the chest down to the groin area he has a few soft ridges which read like stone, not fur. Not sure what's causing these effects wthout seeing maps but it caught my eye.
nice work, the spikes on his back are really odd, maybe if you cover them with some alpha fur it would look cool. The hands are too soft I would expect more of a slightly paw like shape with some visible bones pushing against the skin.
wolf's feet look too large, and positioned wrong. He's still got rabbit legs, and it's throwing the rest of him off.
I'd also like to see a more interesting wrist/hand position. right now it's just a soft blend into his forearm - there's lots of cool silhouetting you can get there.
Thanks for the feedback guys. I have been knocking these out one a week, but I am going to come back later and iterate them again-- and the crits have been really great!
Replies
The pose bugs me, its off balance.
The cloth is a bit weird, it looks hard edged?
but i read that the cloths will be seperated, right?
Correct. This is for the IGF submission and we hope to get the clothing system later, unless it ends up looking worse.
the strong, locked in structure of the pecs/delts/trap onto the arm and shoulder is a big part of what people recognize as fighters. The muscles can be small if you want a light, athletic character, but without the sturdy-but slender shape all around where the arm attaches -- all the muscles that throw the arm forward or couch it for a hit -- he looks like he did bicep curls at the rabbit gym but has never thrown a punch in his life, and couldnt without his arm breaking off.
changed the chest, abs, lats and ears.
Thanks a ton for the feedback!
-Woog
Thanks for the feedback!
Post more Overgrowth later
EDIT: Maybe one thing, the chest to stomach part seems a bit flat, I'd personally like to see it more defined. Well, what woogity said basically! But great work man
Flats:
the light angle doesn't show the spec well. I will post another shot later.
what's your polycount on baked, can i see mesh?
On the diffuse, in the end this is a matter of style, but i'd like to see some sharper details on the cloth and musclature creased in a bit. I know realistically speaking the fur would obscure this but leaning torward a more manga/comic stylization (because, i mean, ninja rabbits) might be a good idea; quick paintover for the kind of thing i mean.
Shaping up awesome, though!
Edit: Doesnt show much with the texture on, so...
the mesh is 4,744 tris
Did a little paintover. Thought it could use some of the sort of black undercurrent of fur many rabbits have, changed up the pants a bit for interest and added some black stone beads on his bindings for the same. Lots of other tiny touches, probably too much, noticeable only if you flipbook it... also a bit of sharpening but mostly to combat the recompression.
I think he could work equally well as a main hero or random baddie in the game. Nice to get a further glimpse at Overgrowth.
Hey Aubrey, I think it would really pay off if you were to actually seperate things like his armour and clothing. Right now everything looks like it was made out of one piece, and you're missing the overlap that the other method would give you. It also makes it easier and fast to work with, I think, so that's three reasons to do it
I think you use mudbox, so sadly you'll be missing many of the tools that I use for that sort of stuff in Zbrush (and I've only just begun exploring the program myself), and you'll have to prepare things in advance for the base model.
I also miss some more substantial mid-level detail. You've got your overal shape, your body with your limbs, but between that and the fine detail there's very little form there. Very little hinting at muscles underneath the fur, and so on......
Except for on the chest, where I think you actually overdid it somewhat
For some absolutely wonderful sculpts of rabbits (or hares, as I think the case may be), check out Beth cavener Stichter at http://www.followtheblackrabbit.com/
They're not good reference for the detail, but I really think capturing the underlying shapes, and the clumps of fur is much more important than the detail anyway.
Another thing to consider is that --especially as an indie-- it's certainly not a bad idea to stand out, graphically. If you simplify things down to a few iconic shapes (as in the example of Beth Stichter, or Neox's stuff for Airborn, etc...), that might make you stand out in a market oversaturated with a grimy style.
okedoke. i like this bunny, really do, the new fur texture is very nice, tho a bit desaturated as said before. Also, the eyes need alot of work, the characters life and personality comes from them, not something you want to be misinterpreted, so spend some time on them, id recommend checking out Katzeimsack's dominance war 4 entry, dude does killer eyes. as for the proportions, the arms are a bit cylindrical which kills the realism a bit, also if you give the elbow a bit of a bend your riggers and animators will thank you, it will deform much more naturally, and is way easier to skin. similarly, the characters spine is stiff as a board, which makes him look very unnatural. lower his shoulders a little bit, and curve up that spine so he looks like he is carrying his weight. also you may want to adjust his leg and foot placement a bit he looks a bit off balance atm. i realy like whats going on in the new texture except for the eye, and the character has a good bit of personality already, luv dem bunniez
-Woog
I have given the spine a more natural curve on my next character, which I will post here when I make more progress.
I think that those sculptures are amazing, but I am pretty set in stone with the art direction. I hope that by the time our game comes out, people will have gotten enough stylized art direction, and that more realstic stuff will stand out.
Maybe this is dumb, but I am really confident of our tech, and so I would really like to go head-to-head with Id Tech 5 and CryEngine 3. Even if We fall short, it would be interesting to see how big that gap is.
I am planning on adding some alpha planes for the fur at a later date, especially on the back hair and the tail.
feedback greatly appreciated! This the first wolf character I have done, so I will probably be making more.
He could also have some tattoos or warmarks, that would make him badasser
Other than that, I think the rabbits legs are a little bit too long, and it shows a lot more on the contrast image between the Rabbit and Wolf. I think they need to be shortened a little bit. I think the problem is under the knee.
-Jo
The wolf looks nice too but from the chest down to the groin area he has a few soft ridges which read like stone, not fur. Not sure what's causing these effects wthout seeing maps but it caught my eye.
I'd also like to see a more interesting wrist/hand position. right now it's just a soft blend into his forearm - there's lots of cool silhouetting you can get there.
They're coming along nicely, though!
Nice work man.