What to go for, what offer to take.
polycounter lvl 13
Hey,
In a bit of a pickle atm, I think its about time i could start looking for my first on site job in the games industry but i keep coming across the same problem. (edit: ok, not a 'problem,' just poorly chose that word)
Occasionally some people would actually contact me with potential offers (some nice studios actually) but its hard to make a serious decision based on the information they actually give me, or whether i should play along, and hope the position is actually tailored around me later on, when they'd go more into depth and find out more about me and my experience.
In a sense it's basically like me asking "should i jump onto any offer i can get, to get my foot into the games industry," I feel i can answer that myself with a big fat yes, however i do often get a sense from job descriptions that theres a line i just shouldn't push my luck past or that they are overlooking my experience on their part, because i know i'm not an environment artist, or that im familiar with PS3/Xbox360 development and so on.
I know my boundaries, and what i should look for in my current position, but when a very well known studio contacts me instead of me applying, (and now recently) asking to arrange an interview for a position im not entirely sure i can fulfill what do you think i should do?
I mean, they wouldn't contact someone out of random now would they? i look over my work and say to myself theres no way i could just 'snap' into this job position, but perhaps they see potential to adapt or something?
The location is in London, on the other side of the country for me. (But not the longest move i can imagine a lot of people make.
)
(The position is 'Artist' and the description doesn't read well as an entry position)
EDIT:
Yes, it would make sense to ask them, which is what I've done, but what i'd like to know is if going to an interview for a position you kind of fit into but are more suited for something different, then asking and/or negotiating with them in person would be better than just asking "Is this a entry level job" ~ "No" ~ "Ok no thanks" in a simple dead email.
In a bit of a pickle atm, I think its about time i could start looking for my first on site job in the games industry but i keep coming across the same problem. (edit: ok, not a 'problem,' just poorly chose that word)
Occasionally some people would actually contact me with potential offers (some nice studios actually) but its hard to make a serious decision based on the information they actually give me, or whether i should play along, and hope the position is actually tailored around me later on, when they'd go more into depth and find out more about me and my experience.
In a sense it's basically like me asking "should i jump onto any offer i can get, to get my foot into the games industry," I feel i can answer that myself with a big fat yes, however i do often get a sense from job descriptions that theres a line i just shouldn't push my luck past or that they are overlooking my experience on their part, because i know i'm not an environment artist, or that im familiar with PS3/Xbox360 development and so on.
I know my boundaries, and what i should look for in my current position, but when a very well known studio contacts me instead of me applying, (and now recently) asking to arrange an interview for a position im not entirely sure i can fulfill what do you think i should do?
I mean, they wouldn't contact someone out of random now would they? i look over my work and say to myself theres no way i could just 'snap' into this job position, but perhaps they see potential to adapt or something?
The location is in London, on the other side of the country for me. (But not the longest move i can imagine a lot of people make.
)(The position is 'Artist' and the description doesn't read well as an entry position)
EDIT:
Yes, it would make sense to ask them, which is what I've done, but what i'd like to know is if going to an interview for a position you kind of fit into but are more suited for something different, then asking and/or negotiating with them in person would be better than just asking "Is this a entry level job" ~ "No" ~ "Ok no thanks" in a simple dead email.
Replies
If you feel the need to voice your concerns over your knowledge, then do it. However, they'll use that as an excuse to pay you less, when it sounds like they want you enough to pay you quite well.
and you got enough talents to blow most of them away, I'm sure - even if it's not in exactly the position you feel you would be best in.
Good luck.
Why is this? The more comfortable you are with the interview process, the better you will do when you are actively seeking employment. And the best way to become more comfortable in interviews is to go to as many as possible.
Then there is the exposure it gives you to networking possibilities. People tend to talk within their own industry. Even if you aren't planning on accepting the job in question, getting to talk to some of the people inside the industry, and potentially in a position of authority, is a good thing. Making a favorable impression on them could lead to future opportunities. It pays to know more people, interviews are actually a pretty good way to meet industry insiders.
Now, for your specific situation, I wouldn't worry too much about whether or not you are a close fit to the job description. The fact that the company in question is showing interest in you is very telling. You are in a position most applicants would love to be in. It is very possible that they feel you have a solid artistic base, or that your work indicates that you are highly trainable. Of course, if you don't go to the interview, you will never get a chance to ask them about this.
And don't look for an entry level job specifically. If they are willing to give you a job above entry level, that is also a good thing. Most people have to start at the bottom. If they feel you've got the chops to skip that step, go ahead and take a crack at it. You'd be amazed how quickly you can learn...when you HAVE to.
Good luck with whatever though heh.
nah man... in all seriousness, i agree with bounchfx... use the interview to your advantage... plus, if this is your first gig, then just remind yourself that although you don't know everything you may need to know to fill the position, learning it will only aid you in the future for the position you really, really, really want... can't be too picky at this stage i would think... plus, if they are contacting you and not vice versa, then also remember that they see you as talent, and not a warm body... they want you, and if you have to learn some things to get up to speed, i think most studios will be leanient on some certain criteria because of the very hardcore fact that they want your talent in their studio.
you got skill fletch... best of luck man!
It has to be a mutual agreement in the end, and it's not like they're going to chain you to the wall of the interview room until you accept a position you don't want to take for whatever reason.
If they offer you a position after the interview, and you don't feel like it'll work out for you, don't allow yourself to be put on the spot - tell them you'll get back to them, then email or call back and decline the position. State a reason if you feel it's appropriate, but you don't have to justify to a potential employer why you are turning down a position!
Also it's a shame we don't have a character artist slot open at the moment, I'd be hassling you like crazy
Stack shelves or work in a potentially awesome game studio? If it goes wrong you can gaurantee you would of learned something from the job.
Granted ive only ever had 2 interviews, my 1st 1 was really really awkward and cold and felt like torture the 2nd was amazing and wasnt really an interview ;D.
Times are tough, it seems, so maybe you can't be "TOO" choosy on where you go...but you're obviously better than making crates
Good luck dude, you know I love your work!
Gav
There are millions of people out there sitting in cubicles jacking off (not literally of course, well there's probably an exception or two) providing nothing to their company.
You probably don't realize how much of an asset you'd be to the company. Not everyone who works at a studio is rockstar good and blogs online. Ever been to a game website and thought, wow, i can do better than this? Well... that was the stuff they thought was good enough to be online.
Sorry, i seem to have come off sounding a bit pathetic, and i know its not at all a *real* problem.
I think i was just worried, say for instance, if i got such a job, and it was something real different to me, fuck up, then receive bad recomendation..
in short i was merely wondering how precise these kind of requirements are.
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Yeah you're all right, thanks.
for anyone interested, the position is at Rockstar London.
You don't have to be arrogant, just come across as someone who believes in his own ability and I am sure you do really.
I am sure it will work out fine
I had a similiar siituation recently as well, where I interviewed for a position that I felt was more than I thought I was capable of fulfilling, and I honestly told them that during the interview, because they asked me about a lot of programs, tools, skills, etc. that I had little or no experience with. But they also asked me a lot about my workflows, how I approach creating or learning things, my primary strengths and interests and other things like that. I also wasn't bummed out or intimidated or anything about not feeling like the right fit for the position. I just saw it as a neat experience to meet some new folks, check out a new studio, and maybe ask some questions of my own and learn a few things while I was there. A few days later they offered me a job. And since I was totally up front with them about what felt I was capable of and everything else, I figured if they were confident enough to offer me the job, there's no reason I shouldn't be confident enough to take it. And they are some talented folks, so I thought it would be great to work with them.
And it's worked out pretty well. I've made it a point to put in time outside of work to ramp up on things and get up to speed, but that's cool by me because it's pretty fun and educational and I dig what I do. I'm guessing that they hired me as much on attitude and potential as they did for my current skill set, and that might be what gets you the job as well.
So yeah, go meet with them, check the place out and see what happens.
I also feel like I should add that most companies, if they hire someone for a position, and then discover the person is actually better at X than he is for what he was hired for, they'll usually shift him to position X at some point. Also, if you're in a company, and finding that you're not as into it as you thought, but see somewhere where you WOULD be more interested, most companies are willing to work with you to get you there. Though it can take some time.
Quit stressing, go do some interviews, and kick ass on whatever you end up on.
P.S. You'd get my vote in a hot second at Cryptic, but it's a bitch to hire from outside the US, and you probably don't want to move here anyway.
Nah, I can see where you are coming from. One of my first industry jobs was as an environment artist and for the first few weeks I really felt as if I had made the wrong choice as I struggled with the software and workflow and generally thought I didn't know what I was doing. Over the next few months I really settled into the tasks and learned some great tips and worked with stuff I wouldn't have had the chance to otherwise.
Come the next project, and as everybody knew that I was interested in becoming a character artist and had normal mapping experience I got to teach some of the guys about a "next-gen" workflow and try out doing some of the characters. This ended up with me becoming character artist at Midway.
So what I am saying is basically that you should never underestimate making yourself part of a team and hearing about internal opportunities first. In alot of cases it's much easier to make the switch from one division to another than getting hired straight from outisde the studio.
This clears things up greatly, thanks.
and thanks for the advice guys (i only regret replying to the email before making this thread, asking "is this an entry level position" ...ouch
I was contacted recently about joining a studio in London, they said experience would be prefered though so I mentioned that unfortunately I did not have that experience right now but was still interested. That was in May and I'm still waiting for a reply. So at least being upfront about expectations on both sides can only be a good thing.
Was just curious where the line is for how high up a first job can be. Job descriptions just seem misleading, when the job itself could be quite flexible. (so it may seem)