Getting paid!
polycounter lvl 14
Hey all, quick question:
As someone who is about to pick up their first paying freelance gig, how should I decide on how much to charge the client? It's going to be character modeling work, but nothing overly complex. And the client wants to see how the first character turns out and then will be needing characters on a continual basis so he asked me to determine what would be fair pay for both of us based on that.
Any suggestions? Are there hard and fast rules for this sort of thing? Or any guides out there? I don't know if it makes a difference but i'm in the LA area. I also have a full time job so this wouldn't be a primary source of income. But it's intriguing.
Thanks in advance!
As someone who is about to pick up their first paying freelance gig, how should I decide on how much to charge the client? It's going to be character modeling work, but nothing overly complex. And the client wants to see how the first character turns out and then will be needing characters on a continual basis so he asked me to determine what would be fair pay for both of us based on that.
Any suggestions? Are there hard and fast rules for this sort of thing? Or any guides out there? I don't know if it makes a difference but i'm in the LA area. I also have a full time job so this wouldn't be a primary source of income. But it's intriguing.
Thanks in advance!
Replies
Don't undercharge, because undercharging is the death of all freelancers, but don't overcharge either, as you're more likely to bounce the client onto someone else.
Be fair and honest and you should find it works best for you
Best of luck!
But also check out turbo squid and see what prices are there for characters as that is where most companies (to my knowledge) head to before requesting assistance from a "free lancer or temp".
Example:
$10 an hour, 4 hours, 40 dollars a character depending on what is going into the character what the quality is like and how much is it worth really.
edit:
nice killzone work gly.
and then you start working in the shopping mall to earn your living?
also looking at turbosquid, really the prices are there so the character makes money and money the more people will buy it, while a exclusive character is exclusive and only pays you once.
It was just an example.
Don't forget about re-work. If they're giving you concepts and you're going to stick strictly too them, you will only get minor changes, but if they say "make a pirate" and they wanted something entirely different you could wind up scrapping most/all the character.
Rework is really the hard issue, imho - having set, up-front expectations on both sides about what is acceptable amounts of rework is critical. Making it clear that part of your fees include scheduled re-work, and how much is scheduled, is very important, imho. Otherwise you get the client that has you build 5 characters for a 1 character contract. If both parties are finding that there is very little re-work, you can always offer to reduce the charges on future models if little re-work is required for future models.
I would tell them up front "since this is sample work, and you aren't sure of the quality, we can do this as a test asset for 300, but if you like the work my normal rate is 500/per character"
I mean, you can call it how you want. Just saying what I would do in the situation.
About $10/hour being too little. I worked at Wal-Mart for 7.50/hour before quiting to do freelance full time, and considered 10-15/hour to be awesome. I took any job I could get. Even stuff for $50 from random websites, or to do little graphics.
this is a really good point. Some people will ask you to rework stuff over and over endlessly. Sometimes even for good reason (like your work is not to the quality they need) Be wary of getting into that situation. For rework I would say that any reworking is going to have to be paid for on a per hour basis.
for a character? thats way low.
well, his only description was "character modeling." Maybe he's doing a 300 poly char, no textures. Maybe he's doing a full sculpt. I dunno...
[take what you want to make per year, divide by 1000, and there's your hourly wage]
If you think reworking is a major point of the contract, then spell your terms out in the contract before you start the work - It's time you're spending working on something for someone else, so it's a point to consider.
Most full-time freelances charge for time spent in phonecalls with their clients, for the time they spend meeting with them, etc. You don't have to go that far; It all depends how seriously you're taking it.
It depends a lot on the asset and how fast you work, but that would be a discount rate for a test asset.
I have done a pretty decent skin-gen pokemon style character in an hour. $300 for an hour of work is pretty good.
Some small tweaks as you work are totally reasonable and expected. You should give them updates as you work to make sure you are hitting expectations, to help minimize any rework near the end.
Flat rate projects are the death knell for your average free-lancers. If you let a client spam revisions, they will spam it to death. For a free lancer, nothing is more important than getting paid.
Make sure you know exactly what the client wants. Is it a simple model from a concept that they will provide? Or a baked from high res character with diffuse/spec/normal, prepped for facial animation, and detailed as all-hell based off of concepts that you create and must be approved? One might take you an hour or two, the other might take several weeks. Really take the time to consider exactly what you will need to do at various phases, and how much time each phase will realistically take.
Then be very clear that any extensive re-works (not minor revisions) will not be covered.
If it involves high poly, game, and textures then man i wouldn't ask for less than 800-1200.
I have done really small things in the past. Tables, rocks, etc that have paid 350-500.
Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical Guidelines
Not just for graphic artists either.
I find myself in a similar position to Ablaine. I've got a guy from Garage Games interested in getting me to do some paid freelance work. It's the first income I'll have gotten in the last couple of months and I'm wary about scaring him off by asking for too much.
I'd question him about any budget he might have and then base my quote on that. Or price it realistically and disclaim you're open to negotiation. In the past, I've also offered to provide a client with multiple quotes, with varying degrees of "options" that'd reduce the cost.
If you have experience and a portfolio that speaks for itself, and it's a well-heard-of name like GG, I'd say you're in a solid position.
Best of luck though, dude.
I did an entire 4-legged creature...high poly, low poly, unwrap, texture for $140. I guess I'm a huge douche...lol
My intent isn't to cheapen the craft but I'm always afraid of scaring people off with a price that is too high. There seems to be too many freelancers out there and not enough interest coming in. It also sucks that people in India are doing shit for 83 cents / hour.
if it helps anyone a good figure for a weeks freelance work in london , is around 1000 pounds per week.
But expect anything from 150 to 200 pounds a day.
If you are just starting out, you might knock this down a bit, depends on the client and how good you are.
comparing yourself to indian people can't be right because you are not in india and if clients want to outsource to india they would do it in first place and not contact you
I think I will up it a bit in future or they may just see me as the cheap and cheerful type:)
Also sometimes i get offers like "we pay you XXX per asset" then i have to decide whether or not i do it and also tell them "look, my work will cost you X per hour, that makes Y hours work, this means i will have to finish the first iteration in Z time and then some minor changes are fine with me, but no big ones as you are not willing to compensate the effort."
Normally its simple, the more time a client is willing to pay me the better the asset will be, they know i could do better with a few more hours/days but if they are fine with what i can create in the given time/money amount, thats fine with me too.
I think its best to judge the situation on a per company basis
Ruz, is it out of line to ask the client what their budget is? The client is either willing or unwilling since they make the decision. They've got a figure in their head to begin with I imagine.
whatever liquid development pays out, I'm sure it varies on the artist and project. And come on, I'm sure you know no one can discuss that sort of thing.
I was talking to a guy on cgtalk who charged 100 an hour for some arch viz stuff.
EDIT: which is to say, don't underestimate what high quality skilled labor is worth.
It would just be nice if the process wasn't so secretive and we could actually KNOW more of what the client wants to pay. Throwing out salary requirements is intimidating to me. It's like gambling and hoping your rub off ticket wins. Just state what you are willing to pay after seeing my work dag-nabbit.
I suppose that is what the ethical pricing book is for...which I guess I should check out.
edit: nice write up kat. :thumbup:
It is pretty pointless to ask for more than a person can pay. You aren't ruining anything for other freelancers if you are doing jobs they would sneer at.
Another important point is getting paid. Holding off on final assets like Neox suggested is a good idea.
[edit]
Also, I would point out that if you can offer a lower price because you are a fast worker, or because you live in someplace cheap (like Oklahoma), it is not your fault that you are taking "well paying" jobs that freelancers in California consider "insanely low".
Pro Tip: Save money for tax time.
Another thing that I would like to point out is that there are 2 types of freelancers. Those that started out doing freelance work, and those that already have industry experience before they start freelancing. I started from nothing, doing freelance jobs long before I got my first on site position.
Contracts are great for companies because they don't have to pay healthcare or taxes. You'll have to plan these expenses when you calculate your hourly rate.
But you shouldn't charge too little. Working 40 hours a week at $10/h "just for the experience" makes no sense. You're better off working a part time job for $15-$20 an hour, and using your spare time to work on personal projects.
When I was younger i thought the gaming business was the be-all and end-all, and there would be no meaning to my life if I couldn't be part of it. That was a childish infatuation. This is just a business, and you need a job to be able to provide for you and yours. It's a very enjoyable profession and I love every minute of it, but I would drop it quickly if I saw that it couldn't provide me the life style that I want. A lot of variables go into making a satisfying life, and you shouldn't sacrifice everything chasing some job.
Really? I think its pretty average, compared to other artists i know, look - what a lot of people always forget is, that a freelancer has no insurance paid by anyone, no healthcare paid, no retirement savings, no taxes, no nothing, you always have to pay those things on your own, you have to pay your own lawyer, your own tax consultant. What about working machines, software licences, updates? Thats all stuff thats normally paid by the employer, and there is also no guarantee that a freelancer is booked all the time.
Don't underestimate all the money you have to pay on your own, its A LOT if you want to live in a decent neighbourhood in a decent apartement. And the topic owner is living in california, from what i saw so far, its not a cheap area, i'm living in Berlin, and its pretty cheap compared to other german cities and i couldn't live as i do now in munich for example, or some bigger european cities, london for example is pretty fucking expensive, how would you even be able to pay the rent without having to worry about food with a small amount of money?
I do enjoy personal projects a lot more anyways so until I really need the money I'll just continue that unless someone is willing to pay more. I have a plan of attack before I start applying around again in search of work.
Seconded. Also, know that people shop on price (which means the opposite fo what you may think). If something is cheap, be it a service or an item, it is thought to be of lower quality than something expensive. If you undercut what you're worth to get work, you may actually get less work.
Also, get EVERYTHING that you are expected to do figured out.
I took a job where I did a rendering of a church for a couple hundred dollars (can't remember how much - not much). I told the contact I was finished and would bring the work I'd done to their office. I brought letter-sized proofs so that they could approve of the work and I could turn over the image. I assumed that this was common practice. In actuality they were expecting me to bring the final printed image. Because we didn't hammer this out ahead of time, and we were on a tight timeframe, I had to jet over to a local print shop and paid for the print out.
It was a small job and I don't think a contract would have been necessary, but I failed to ask enough questions, and lost some money because of it.
$150 - $300 for the first model with x % amount of rework flexibility any rework above that % then charge so much extra.
If he likes the work the definitely $500 a model.
One thing I did not see in the above posts what the escrow amount to be charged - meaning an upfront payment or some guaruntee they won't stiff you, nor did you mention if they were providing concepts from which to work from.
I have done this so many times it is like a habit, always have a work for hire contract that spells out the details, get some payment upfront or have the whole amount placed in escrow this ensures they don't simply walk away.
If you need help with any of that let me know, I will help where I can.
I rather set the price before and then spend as much time I feel for it.