Viewing normal maps/opacity and stuff realtime on an ancient computer?

Japhir

Hey guys,

I find it very annoying that I can't view normal maps (and even opacity maps :poly127:) in realtime in 3ds max 9. (opacity works, kindof but still looks different from the renders). If i set max up so that i can view normalmaps realtime my pc crashes and restarts.

I have an ancient computer:
AMD Sempron 3000+
512 MB RAM
64 MB Shared Videomemory

I was wondering if there is software/a game engin available that allows me to watch normal maps realtime properly and work with my computer :P.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. (and no, i don't have money to upgrade my pc ).

thanks in advance!

CrazyButcher

irrlicht engine had a software renderer (not sure how well it still works).
other than that you could try mesa software opengl and use very small windows.

although I fail to see how you cannot get some old graphics card, from friends or whatever.

Ryan Clark

Hi Japhir,

Your specs neglect to mention the key detail... what video chip is in your system?

If you aren't sure, go to start->run->dxdiag. Click on the "display" tab. What does it say under "device?"

thanks,

-Ryan

Japhir

ah thanks guys!

crazybutcher: hmm i might try and steal some old graphics card from my brother .

Ryan Clark:
thanks, I have no idea what to show when describing my pc specs I don't even know what it's for most of the time .

here is what it says, I had to translate it from dutch to english though.

name: VIA/S3G UniChrome IGP
manufacturer: VIA/S3G
chiptype: VIA/S3G UniChrome IGP
DAC-type: Internal
Total memory: 32.0 MB
current 1024 x 768 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: standard monitor

Thanks for the help!

Ryan Clark

Yep, that card's not gonna show pixel shaders

If you have a spare AGP or PCI slot, a used video card can be picked up very cheaply. A card with PixelShader 2.0 support can be had for around $20 on ebay.

Without pixel shaders, your options are limited. I think xnormal has some sort of software-rendered mode. That might be worth a look.

Japhir

Ah thanks for the help, i'll ask my brother if he knows of some cheap ones with that thingie.
thanks! i'll reply in this thread as soon as i have found one.

Ryan Clark

You might see those cards referred to as "Directx 9" cards.

Any Geforce numbered 5200 or higher will work.

A Geforce numbered 6200 or higher is better. Those cards support "PixelShader 3."

It's important to make sure your card fits the upgrade slot of your computer. (So if your computer has an AGP slot, you need an AGP card.)

IronHawk

do you know what motherboard you have? if not what brand of computer and model?

Japhir

Ryan clark: i'll let my brother check it out, since i'm not much of a hardware guy :P. I barely know how to put in new memory .

Ironhawk: No i don't, but on the sticker on front it says this:

SPIRIT 3300
AMD Sempron 3000+
512 MB RAM
64 MB Shared Videomemory
DVDR9
80 GB Hard Disk
PS2 Mouse
PS2 Keybord
8 in 1 Card Reader

this is what i found after googling spirit 3300+.

thanks for your support guys!

Ryan Clark

Okay, the motherboards on that page have AGP slots.

That means you probably need an AGP video card.

A used DirectX 9 AGP card should not be too hard to find. Good luck!

IronHawk

Ryan beat me to it. Lawl

based on the integrated video you posted above

name: VIA/S3G UniChrome IGP

I cross referenced the mobo's and am pretty sure you have this board.

http://www.spirit-computers.com/uk/pri/?PibItemNr=spec_motherboard_k8m-800m

so yeah agp 4x / 8x should work for you.

good luck.


edit if nothing else there are pictures and the mobo model is usually printed on the board somewhere.

Japhir

Yay I bought the ATI radeon x1650 pro with 512MB. Thanks again for all the help!

Japhir

Today I was able to pick it up and install it! watching normal maps realtime is amazing .
everything works accordingly, but i still can't view complicated opacity maps realtime properly . unfortunately i can't show images of that because it's for work, stupid nda's. any ideas what settings could cause the opacity maps to show properly?
and do you think xnormal would work now with these specs?
thanks in advance!

Japhir

xnormal works woooohooo
so any ideas on the opacity map issue? using max 9.

Eric Chadwick

What exactly is the problem.

Japhir

it doesn't show the opacity map properly realtime with complicated hair models, it does when i render it with the standard max renderer, but not realtime. i thought that this new video card could show opacity better so i figure there must be something i can do about it (changing settings or whatever). it's frustrating that i can't post images to show what i mean . I have transparancy set to "best" but it shows a lot of errors.

Eric Chadwick

Could be sorting, could be sampling, could be texture-wrapping, I dunno. Make a quickie non-nda example?

Japhir

i found an old model with an alpha map that has the same problem, only much less:


the hair i made for work was the first alpha'd hair i ever made, so that's why i couldn't find any good examples :S
indeed it seems to happen only with more than one opacity map in a row. (=sorting)

Eric Chadwick

Yup, sorting. Some tricks in that link. But not much else available to solve it, the problem totally depends on the game engine and the hardware.

Ryan Clark

I'm surprised max isn't alpha-sorting its viewport. Is there an option for that somewhere? Or this model just a problem case?

I guess it would be expensive if you had a large number of polys to sort.

Eric Chadwick

Max actually only sorts in creation order. From Kees Rijnen over at ShaderFX...

Max doesn't sort based on object center or anything like that.

It draws object in the order they were created.
And the object that is selected is drawn once more last.

So you can try to clone the box or teapot in order to have them 'created' in the order that you want transparency to be drawn.
Though if you change the camera 180 degrees, you'll be out of luck again.

Bummer.