UT3 project - Predator

almighty_gir · Sep 2007

Hey guys, just got a new monitor for my computer, so i figured i'd jump back into the art thing.

wanted to make it female to be different, and figured that the face would need to be fearsome, but still femanine... any suggestions on how to achieve that better?

as for the overall project goal, i wanted to make a pred for UT3 (wewt anticipatioooon), and see if i can also make the appropriate vision modes, but more importantly, limit the pred model to using a few specific weapons: ie. uber powerful plasma canon, a spear, and a wristblade. since those are all a pred really needs :P

konstruct · Sep 2007

you mean something like:

theres a few other girl predators in this galley:
http://www.modelzone.com/mangrasshopper/index.php?level=collection&id=2

greenj2 · Sep 2007

Great reference Konstruct , that face definitely looks more aggressive but still feminine.

So...predators breast feed their young? That must get messy with all those fangs...

Jeremy Lindstrom · Sep 2007

chin looks kinda weak, but looking good.

seforin · Sep 2007

hmm gotta agree with the chin, also body seems rather thin for big head dont you think?

cgjeff · Sep 2007

agree with the comments about the chin.

also you're missing the extremely vaginal inside of the mouth

and i've never seen a predator design with so many skinny little teeth on the inner part of the mouth. You should really take a few out and beef em up.

Wells · Sep 2007

According to the books, the females of the species are much larger than the males and the more sexually dominant. Many young preds don't survive mating.

so... beef her up!

also: that's a badass statue you found there, konstruct

zenarion · Sep 2007

Thats interesting, Sectaurs.
Also, remember the line from Predator2 : "Eat this, pussyface", or something simlar. Danny Glover's character points out that the Predator's mouth resembles a vagina.

I'm really exited by this, and will be watching the project closely. Good luck.

almighty_gir · Sep 2007

i read that on wikipedia sectaurs...
i've always seemed to have a problem with scale, how do i make her "bigger"? with nothing to compare to in terms of size?

should i model her like a man, and just add tits?

Joseph Silverman · Sep 2007

[ QUOTE ]

should i model her like a man, and just add tits?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, just a heavier, more muscular female. Kinda obvious.

almighty_gir · Sep 2007

heh, cheers guys.

well i just saved a crapload of male and female pred pictures from that site (that dude has crazy loads of shit!)

so i'm gonna go start pretty much from scratch :P

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

after looking at some of the different pred heads, i think i've settled on the look i want. i had to start almost completely from scratch too, even the low poly mesh is different.

ANYONE WANT SOME MOUTH PUSSY ACTION?!

seforin · Oct 2007

mouth'gina' needs more Gina and not so much Vag'

haha looking better, lower chin area and upper mouth area seem way to smooth still, need some love going there, I think lower jaw needs to be more fatter if it were to fold over the face correctly. (From the female predator chick showed above)

Wells · Oct 2007

hmm... looks like you're trying to stick predator parts on top of a female head... which I guess is what they did in the movies, but only because of physical limitations. They generally don't have the cheek-webbing-lip shit framing the mouth, connecting where the top and bottom lips would be - you've given her this which makes it look like a human with some pred tusks stuck on. The bottom tusk-mandible thing has skin connecting it to the bottom jaw, whereas you've got it going way back to the side of the head. if you want to nail the pred anatomy, basically what you have to do is stick a finger under you lips, right above either incisor, and pull them up and apart as afar as possible. see how that looks in a mirror, and then exaggerate it. repeat for lower lip.

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

i'll get on that right away :P

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

so anyway, i woke up at 5am with a killer toothache, stuck on some dream theater and redid just about everything, started with mouth detail only for now, i think it's a major step toward the right look so far. can anyone think of anything i should change in terms of major shapes? got any paintovers lurking? i got no problem dropping down to the lower resolutions to rework things if i have to, i wanna get this looking badass.

Wells · Oct 2007

looks much better!

still has too many teeth. two up top, four down bottom is the norm. can we get front/side shots?

Asherr · Oct 2007

i think you're missing some of the heaviness in the bones for the lower mandibles.

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

i'll get you some front/side shots when i get on the other machine Sectaurs, thanks for your help so far!

yeah i noticed that too Asherr, right now i'm kinda thinking that i can't be bothered to adjust the basemesh so that the highpoly has heavier bones, i'm probably gonna bake out the normalmap, then scale out the low poly mesh to suit it better, if that will work...

i'm also playing around with armour designs and stuff. i'm thinking that what will define her as a female, rather than a smaller build, and tits, is that the armour should look more graceful than male armour... maybe some gold/brass trims to it etc.

i was kind of thinking about giving her an amazon armour theme or something, dunno, see what happens. i also need to get better with Zbrush, so i can learn how to make all those really fine details, like the scales/hardened skin etc.

konstruct · Oct 2007

you gotta letgo of this whole dainty approach. wheres the beef? If you look at any pred images, you notice large bulky teeth, and theres not many of them either. Like sectaurus said: two up top, four down bottom is the norm.
4 up top would be okay too :P

looking at the sculpt though, I think your mesh might be limiting you. you might want to step back a bit and model out a nice base mesh to adress some you mandable problem.

the mandible needs be more like a bent thumb or a finger/diget with a spike at the end of it. right now it looks like a fat piece of grass or something.

not much has really changed from the first pass in terms of your voulumes. You`ll notice these ladies have regular sized facial structure, but the mouth is raised quite a bit, making it look like they have a HUGE chin. I think you have the mouth size about right, but you dont have that "leno chin" thing goin on. (also note the lower mandible need be lowered with the chin aswell-

Remember, model what you see , not what you
think you see.

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

so anyway, i quit my job today, so i have lots more time to work on cool stuff like art, music and sex.

spoke to Psyk0 last night about things i can change, he helped me out quite a bit, so i've made changes to the low poly mesh, and hopefully the high poly looks better for it. given her more chin etc. changed the mandibles, and the eye area is different now, also i've made the face a lot more flat. i kinda came to the conclusion i was basing it too much around human shapes, and not enough around the shapes that the species SHOULD have. so i've been trying to think about how their anatomy would work etc.

let me know what you think!

sorry if my progress is slow. i really want to get this right, thanks for your patience guys.

MoP · Oct 2007

Not bad! The whole thing still looks a bit "thin" though - like all the surfaces are very shallow, I think it needs more mass and volume at the lower subdivisions before you go in and start detailing out areas.

I found a cool link which might help for more reference though (pics at the bottom of the page):
http://www.sideshowtoy.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=6347

Looking forward to seeing this develop, Predator is always one of my favourite creatures

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

thanks for the link MoP!

i'm actually heading out to buy one of the srupily detailed figures tomorrow...

btw, does anyone have any decent materials for Zbrush? a lot of them are too contrasted to be any use, or too flat. and none of them really look like flesh at all, which is a bit of a letdown...

MoP · Oct 2007

Vidar Rapp has some cool materials at his site here: http://www.vidarrapp.se/wp-content/matcaplibrary01.zip

I use his Skin 01 matcap, it's nice to work with IMHO.

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

thanks mop, i love the new skin material

hows the body look (other than the tiny hands?). i dunno whether to go for fat free ultra defined muscles, or subtle but strong =/

also, can anyone tell me why i saved the .ZTL (i like to make sure i've got backups in case my pc crashes). and then zbrush crashed, and now i can't open the latest file, so all the work i did on the head has to be redone

Illusions · Oct 2007

Reference: http://www.female-bodybuilders.org/bodybuilding-gallery.php

Valkyries and Body Elite seem good. This is just from quick glancing though. Right now your model looks like she could be snapped like a twig. She needs to look like she could take Arnie solo.

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

i get where you're coming from... i just hate the over exaggeration of bodybuilders =/

Quasar · Oct 2007

What about something more like this? I added a bit of bulk, but mainly changed the proportions.

Illusions · Oct 2007

Ohh, wait, I see another problem. She's supposed to be female but the hips aren't broad enough. Should be at or near equal to the broadness of the shoulders. The way you currently have it makes her look very young.

Psyk0 · Oct 2007

Yo lee! The new head is much better but the neck on the base mesh is way too thin in sideview, easy fix. Also for anatomy try to represent definition instead of mass...to keep away from that steroid look. Qasar's paintover is a great direction i think.

I'll second Illusions point, the body feels boxy/straight right now, female anatomy is all about sexy curves and proportions...36-24-36 :P

rock on mate!

Asherr · Oct 2007

i second what Illusions said about her looking young. the first head you posted and the body made her look like an adolescent.

the heaviness i mentioned in relation to the mandibles goes for the rest of the body too. remember this is a predator species.

compare a lion's anatomy to a cheetah's.

thicker bones, more muscle mass.

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

i'll get on it, i love the paintover so i'll use that, hardcore o/

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

worked on it a little today, had to start over from scratch after the .ZTL continued to just make Zbrush crash every time i tried opening it. decided to take a breather from the head and work on the body first (refreshing

), so now at least there's a good sense of scale from body/head too!

i think i've got the muscular look i wanted, not overly defined, but still "big". let me know what you think. could she rwn arnie yet? :P

Soccerman18 · Oct 2007

Looks like a dude with tits, kinda creepy. The hips need to be wider as has been suggested, and the abs look like they're too high up.

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

i keep trying to make the hips wider, but when i do she just looks... borked hahaha.

i think creepy is good, she's not meant to be beautiful :P

Quasar · Oct 2007

That's looking a lot better Gir! There are still a number of things that need to be ironed out, mainly the anatomy, but you need to focus on the general form first. For your next update can you please finish roughing out the entire body? I'd like to comment on the finer details but not before you have a solid base. Soccer and Illusions are right about the hips too, you really need to nail the mid section and hips area to make her look like a female. Keep up the good work!

edit: Oh yeah, and post full body shots next time.

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

heh, i didn't read this before i took screenshots

(my "work" pc doesn't have the net).

but basically i got sick of the sight of the high res model after a while, and started to rebuild the low res, and start optimising it etc.

i know there's a ton in the hands that can go, i'll do that later.

BeatKitano · Oct 2007

Hum... May sound a bit picky but what's the point of building the low res now ? You don't even have the basic shapes done ??

Slaught · Oct 2007

I know you´re trying to buff her up and stuff but you should keep her looking female.
Those Predgirls don´t look like female bodybuilders, they look fit and muscular but still very feminine.

Looking at those modelkits I´d hit any of these babes, even tho a paperbag comes to mind.

Keep it up dude!

thinsoldier · Oct 2007

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

eurgh... making it strong but femenine is bloody hard...

maybe i should just make her male? :P

Joao Sapiro · Oct 2007

use the lower subdivision levels better, they are the ones that define the shape

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

i tried... i just can't seem to get the right mix of muscle and shape...

also, i'm kinda thinking that i actually work better with lowpoly than high... so once i have the muscle groups sculpted, couldn't i bake that to the low poly mesh, then move things around a little to get a better shape?

Joao Sapiro · Oct 2007

hmmm running away from difficulty wont help you overcome it , will do the oposite, dont get past the first or second level os subdivision and try to make as much shape possible, its a good exercise i think .

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

heh, sorry for the defeatest attitude yesterday. rough day to say the least!

full bodyshots, cos i was asked so nicely :P i worked on her figure a bit, tried to widen her hips some, give her a bit more of a sensual (lol) feel... hopefully it's looking better.

Joao Sapiro · Oct 2007

the middle level of resolution i crucial for your shape, dont gor more than it, try to achieve as much form on it, the left one , erase it, it isnt helping you.

Wells · Oct 2007

head is too small. preds have massive noggins. neck appears to be too long as well. feet look pretty formless... big wedges. beef up dem forearms

almighty_gir · Oct 2007

heh, i'm trying to make her more femenine, and now she's not muscly enough. i don't think i'm gonna win here... i'll keep trying though.

would it help you guys with your crits if i made one of those nifty rotate-able .mov files of the middle resolution mesh?

Joseph Silverman · Oct 2007

Your problem, I think, is that you're thinking feminine = thinner waist, evident ribs, evident hips, etc. I don't think you would be able to see any bone structure under muscle as dense as a predator would have, would you? You can still have all of those feminine forms, they just need to be defined by bulk and muscle instead of scrawny bony stuff. It looks like you can see her ribs, which doesn't make even a bit of sense, if you think about it. Big, thick, strong forms define the Predator, so bring out the serratus and internal oblique instead, like http://www.modelzone.com/mangrasshopper/thumbs/lrg-635-f2.jpg did.

Quasar · Oct 2007

OK, quick liquify hack job

I just tweaked the general shape the way I see a female pred, so it's just my interpretation. Grab some good anatomy ref pics and look through an anatomy book to get the shapes down. I also agree with the comments about the head, it needs to have a greater presence, ie. make it larger ;D

Andopolis · Oct 2007

[ QUOTE ]
the Predator's mouth resembles a vagina.

I'm really exited by this, and will be watching the project closely. Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

UT3 project - Predator

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