High to Low Poly Workflow?
polycounter lvl 18
Hey everyone, I am having trouble figuring out how I should make a normal map for a character; it seems like there are so many different ways; should I make a high-poly and then build the low-poly around it, or make a low-poly and build the high-poly to fit it?
I have usually been making a low-poly and trying to build a high-poly from that but I usually have problems with the normal map and there are areas in the high-poly that don't subdivide enough it seems.
Also, what is the workflow for working on individual pieces of the high poly and getting them all to fit together with the low-poly? Sorry this is a little convuluted, but it's pretty late and I'm having trouble finding anything too useful :P This is more of where I'm having problems. I'll get a nice-looking low-poly done, but then I sort of get stuck trying to figure out how to make a good normal map for it, so maybe I'm just doing it the wrong way.
I've read a lot of tutorials but I guess I'd just like to hear some quick run-downs of how exactly some of you go about it.
I have usually been making a low-poly and trying to build a high-poly from that but I usually have problems with the normal map and there are areas in the high-poly that don't subdivide enough it seems.
Also, what is the workflow for working on individual pieces of the high poly and getting them all to fit together with the low-poly? Sorry this is a little convuluted, but it's pretty late and I'm having trouble finding anything too useful :P This is more of where I'm having problems. I'll get a nice-looking low-poly done, but then I sort of get stuck trying to figure out how to make a good normal map for it, so maybe I'm just doing it the wrong way.
I've read a lot of tutorials but I guess I'd just like to hear some quick run-downs of how exactly some of you go about it.
Replies
If I am doing this all wrong could someone share the correct way?
I start out with a mid res model, with geometry that can be easily worked with to make a lowpoly version and at the same time has enough resolution to do hi-res stuff. Unwrap this med res version, sculpt it, i have all sub d levels in tact with uvs. nothing to worry about, if needed, i just realigned by lowpoly mesh as and when..
But I "R" Good Character modeler!!11!one!
I much prefer finalising the highpoly first before worrying about the lowpoly, it gives you more scope for ad-libbing like Per mentioned.
they're like deer caught in headlights. Seized by absolute terror, unable to make any rational decision.
except do polycounters really have ex-girlfriends? That would infer they had girlfriends to begin with, which is hard when you spend every waking moment in front of 3dsMax
LOL
suppose I am thinking mainly of naked humans/organic stuff here though.
Things that are important when baking a normal , it reduces agony.
1° Reset the xform to elimate artifacts during the bake.
2° Make sure the lowres silhouette covers most of your hires mesh , otherwise u get hard edges.
3° Assign smoothing groups that match the material ID´s.
4° don´t collapse modifiers after the bake , it contains construction history and can be copied and pasted.
hobodactyl
Things that are important when baking a normal , it reduces agony.
1° Reset the xform to elimate artifacts during the bake.
2° Make sure the lowres silhouette covers most of your hires mesh , otherwise u get hard edges.
3° Assign smoothing groups that match the material ID´s.
4° don´t collapse modifiers after the bake , it contains construction history and can be copied and pasted.
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#2... Hard edges.... like smoothing errors? Wha? That dosent even begin to make any sense whatsoever. Have you ever actually seen this or are you just quoting what someone told you? Show some examples if this is actually a problem you've had(in reality). If you mean its cutting out things that extend past your highres, then you probablly need to tweak your cage/ray distance settings.
Also a couple more rules to add:
1. Make sure all your edges face left to right, not right to left, or else you get hard edges.
2. Make sure your the sharp end of the triangles point south-west (unless you're in australia)
please forgive them hobodactyl.
just keep punchin' away at and do a lot of tutorials...experiment lots.
Weirdos.
I guess if i was you i would go for the highpoly and save my file while modeling, this way you can re-access the lowerpoly version as you go for a N.M (99.9 % of people do that) but the best thing to do my friend is to experiment, stop thinking about it and start learning what a N.Map is all about. There is no explanation or example more important than playing with your penis, sorry i mean the tools.
Those are a few thread that helped me over time.
http://www.poopinmymouth.com/tutorial/normal_workflow.htm
http://www.cgchat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26551
http://boards.polycount.net/showflat.php...true#Post201559
http://boards.polycount.net/showflat.php...true#Post198536
http://boards.polycount.net/showflat.php...true#Post201707
My thought is just: If you need to be spoonfed the info, how will you ever survive in this industry? How are you going to put food on your family?
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Ding Ding Ding. Quoted for truth.
I will make a example.
See the black arrows these are hard edges.
This is how I would fix it , if you know a better technique , please share it.
I would duplicate the low poly and add extra cuts to it.
I will tweak these cuts to make the hardedges disappear.
Basicly matching the Silhouette.
Afterwards using this version of the medium-high poly for baking process.
And apply the normal to the low poly , ofcourse keeping in mind that the normalmap matches the outer silhouette of the lowpoly mesh.
I nominate Per for the DramaQueen of the month!
Other than that, I agree 100% with him... ok 99%
Edit: @Vredesbyrd: I think that was a missunderstanding as "hard edges" usually referrs to a way to do smoothing groups in certain apps.
Ohh the drama
I nominate Per for the DramaQueen of the month!
Other than that, I agree 100% with him... ok 99%
Edit: @Vredesbyrd: I think that was a missunderstanding as "hard edges" usually referrs to a way to do smoothing groups in certain apps.
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Yes it was my mistake.
I'm a max Noob , starting learning it a year ago.
My background is Aliaswavefront Maya.
To be fair though not every artist is tech minded.
I am master of the blank expresion when a coder is trying to explain something to me, but some really talented artists I have known are 'totally' non technical and you have to explain stuff over and over.
How are you going to put food on your family?
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The same way I always have.
By carefully balancing one danish at a time.
I basically make a proportions pass, the normal model or if i'm going to make a sculpt in mudbox or zbrush then i just do a quick rough model in max with the right proportions and shit and drop that out. Then I create the low poly around it. UVs and then on to materials.
Everyone has different styles and the trick is finding the style that works best for you.
man some of you guys get heated over the dumbest shit. so many ways you can go about during your workflow process. I can honestly say that as an environment artist I have been making everything from debris piles sculpted with mudbox and parts modeled with max, sci-fi metal crates, rocks sculpted in mudbox to high poly fps weapons. Not one of these had the same steps as another.
I basically make a proportions pass, the normal model or if i'm going to make a sculpt in mudbox or zbrush then i just do a quick rough model in max with the right proportions and shit and drop that out. Then I create the low poly around it. UVs and then on to materials.
Everyone has different styles and the trick is finding the style that works best for you.
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No Jesse if you don't do it the way the internet tells you your puppy will melt into a puddle of whimpering goo whose tortured sounds will haunt your nightmares.
No Jesse if you don't do it the way the internet tells you your puppy will melt into a puddle of whimpering goo whose tortured sounds will haunt your nightmares.
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Haha don't tempt me. There are strays all over the place.
Let me get this straight..
-Build a Low or Med poly mesh of the shape you want your character/creature to be (and evenly distribute polygons)
-bring it into a sculpting program like zbrush/mudbox/silo and add the detail and finish your high poly model
-bring it back into your modeling program and RE-BUILD a low poly model over it (or in zbrush export the lowest res mesh)
-project normal map and apply
is this correct?
I like being spoonfed okay, we have the resources here with the internets and such and this happens to be a great place to get them
now if that is correct.. how do you go about re-building the low poly model on top of the high poly one if the high poly one is way too many polygons for your computer to handle? a piece at a time... or ? and when you build your original mesh that you will be subdividing into your high poly mesh do you build that in pieces ?
any info is great, thanks, I'm understanding it wayyyy more than I did previously
Thanks!
Alex
It's all about experimenting with things. I have taught a lot of things to myself and I do pretty much everything but character stuff and my workflow changes piece by piece.
I have been lucky to have some of you guys help me along the way with some things that I flubbed up here and there and now I try to help others out with those same mistakes.
That makes me a freak, doesn't it?
The U-shape contains a different smoothing group.
Material ID's correspond with the type of mapping and Smoothing groups.
Thats Good intel thank you., I haven't put it into practice yet , cuz i have other priorities at this moment.
But I trust your expertise on this one.
Polycruncher is not clean for downgrades.
I find polydraw and border tool very slow and most of the time unworkable when the mesh is too dense.
The truth is, you just have to experiment with this shit like crazy...
And so now I realize after typing this how old this topic is...lol...