Online "Industry Secrets" for sale

insane polycounter
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TeriyakiStyle insane polycounter





Maybe I'm not supposed to talk about this professionally but... Is this stuff a big Troll joke I am not getting?

Cornflower blue seems to be a theme for "inspiring" kids to burn through their student loans.  Just hoping people are not throwing a lot of money at a problem that will only be solved by...

 WORKING ON ART! 

($5000 dollars to my paypal pls)

There isn't any information these groups could possibly tell you that isn't available online for free or much less than $5000 dollars via books, gumroads, on and on.  Beyond learning the fundamentals of drawing, painting, sculpting you are on your own to develop as an artist.

Here's the only thing you need:
Pick a project you care about.  Do the work and learn from it.  Rinse and repeat until you've solved so many problems you have a reliable process.

Can we as Polycounters review some of these schools - find reasonable and beneficial ones (maybe Schoolism) and warn people about the shady ones? - seems like another Conceptart.org or Gameartisans fiasco waiting to happen and I hate when people fall for this stuff and are harmed financially and also harms their motivation as artists.

Maybe I'm just over caffeinated and tired of seeing these ads.  Be careful with your money!

Replies

  • Marshkin
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    Marshkin polycounter lvl 4
    The bottom one is from CGMA - As someone who is super skeptical about schools, I took one of their elective courses and I found it worked much better for me because there was direct feedback from a mentor, along with weekly 1:1 Q&A sessions ontop of the regular class videos. I learned a lot and made leaps and bounds in my skills. 

    Schools are a mixed bag. CGMA allows me to pick and choose what area I want to focus on. 

    As for reviewing these schools, I googled and searched these forums before signing up with it. The info is there, we just need to look for it.
  • NikhilR
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    NikhilR polycounter lvl 3
    I think that many artists start courses to compensate for the low pay in the industry. Its like a freelance teaching job.
  • TeriyakiStyle
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    TeriyakiStyle insane polycounter
    to be clear I'm not opposed to teaching and expecting compensation.  But promising to "unlock the artist" in you for $$$ is just the same old snake oil.

    maybe I'm reading into it too much but this stuff is just seems really strange and cheesy to me - tons of red flags shooting out of my ears and eyes.  I almost can't believe it's serious.




  • RyanB
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    RyanB Polycount Sponsor
    If people want to spend $100,000 for two years of school, then that's their choice.  It's not like they don't have alternatives. 
  • TeriyakiStyle
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    TeriyakiStyle insane polycounter
    Of course it's their choice.  But if they are told "pay this and I will have the answers to all your art dreams" then they may be falling victim to deception when all they wanted was a good mentor.
  • pior
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    pior ngon master
  • TeriyakiStyle
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    TeriyakiStyle insane polycounter
    I would value that advice as priceless.  But whether you were given it for free or had to shell out $1000 bucks to hear it you'd still be in the same place in regard to ability.

    But I'll follow my own advice and get back to work if this is Taboo.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
  • Sunray
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    Sunray polygon
    Idk Ryan has some nice free webinars if you give him your email you will get some emails now and then. But I would never pay that amount of money for a course. But I get why people are doing it tho.
  • NoRank
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    NoRank triangle
    It seems that putting effort is way too hard, it's way easier to pay someone to grab you hand and do that for you.
  • Elithenia
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    Elithenia interpolator

    Can we as Polycounters review some of these schools - find reasonable and beneficial ones (maybe Schoolism) and warn people about the shady ones? - seems like another Conceptart.org or Gameartisans fiasco waiting to happen and I hate when people fall for this stuff and are harmed financially and also harms their motivation as artists.

    Maybe I'm just over caffeinated and tired of seeing these ads.  Be careful with your money!
    Might be interesting to have a sub forum where the information that's out there is consolidated? Might be interesting for the schools as well to see how the industry actually feels about them, instead of just listening to surveys from they students? However, what about all the trolls, or people that didn't go there even? It is tricky
    Marshkin said:
    Schools are a mixed bag. CGMA allows me to pick and choose what area I want to focus on. 

    As for reviewing these schools, I googled and searched these forums before signing up with it. The info is there, we just need to look for it.
    Might be interesting to consolidate the info somewhere people can find it more easy, as there's a lot of new people that ask for the help with that.
    However, maybe adding courses as well and not just degrees might be a good idea too?

    Dunno. People are lazy and want a quick fix. If someone can promise them that for $$$ they don't have to spend x amount doing facial studies or anatomy studies, they they'll pay it..... and then realise they'll have to do those hours anyway. But that is my opinion. 


    However; That being said, there's also something about burning bridges in the industry if you give an negative opinion about a degree or course that someone else has found absolutely amazing. That might be something that could cause problems, and burn relationships within the industry.... ad maybe destroy chances of getting references and jobs because of those opinions.... ? 
  • AlexJudeScott
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    AlexJudeScott polycounter lvl 3
    I've been considering (very much on the fence, trying to asses the value) the game art institute one. Yeah, Ryan Kingslien loves to wax philosophical about being an artist, etc, and it's all a bit much, but the main draw of the boot camp is the 1:1 feedback with some really great artists (yes, everything else the course offers is free). That's the only added value, over a gnomon workshop 1/10th of the price, and who knows how much of an actual impact that will have on my work. It kind of feels like the diminishing returns one gets in buying graphics cards.
  • NikhilR
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    NikhilR polycounter lvl 3
    Elithenia said:



    However; That being said, there's also something about burning bridges in the industry if you give an negative opinion about a degree or course that someone else has found absolutely amazing. That might be something that could cause problems, and burn relationships within the industry.... ad maybe destroy chances of getting references and jobs because of those opinions.... ? 
      Not one for burning bridges but I wouldn't be happy working in a job where I'm around people that despise me simply because of a difference in opinion. Wouldn't stop me from giving my opinion though, industry rumors of blacklisting on this basis are a little exaggerated.
      Also its a large industry, difficult to burn that many bridges, there will always be something for everyone.
  • Bletzkarn
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    Bletzkarn triangle
    "Figuring it out for yourself" is one of the worst ways to learn unfortunately. You can spend years and years doing a workflow a slower way, 1 tutorial complete changes that.

    Tutorials are great, even paid ones. They just have to be really good.

    For example I've bought a lot of UDEMY tutorials that I found extremely helpful.
  • undin
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    undin polycounter lvl 2
    I have mixed feelings about it.

    I do think some people don't really understand that all the tutorials and software
    they need exist online for very reasonable prices or free, and they just need to
    download them and work really hard. Obviously you find this out if you research
    hard enough, but the first thing some people might run into  before they know
    anything about the industry is these really expensive courses, or they might get
    bad advice that you need credentials. Like a 3 year game dev course, a bunch of these
    online courses and licenses for multipal software packages and end up in debt :( as well as taking longer than I might have otherwise taken them to develop skills or specialize in a discipline etc.

    (yesterday I read some silly article online that looked totally legit about how you need
    to have a BA in a game design course to become an environment artist! Which I would
    totally have believed if I was not lurking on polycount for so long!)

    But.... I also think other people could accelerate their skills and carrier by doing a course,
    and even if its expensive, it could be more than worth it for the amount of time it would
    have otherwize taken to develop the specific skill, get insights from professionals working
    in the area you want to work in, and critiques from them. As well as teaching them how to
    do things with the most effciant pipeline, rather than build up bad practices.

    Like for example, the CGMA class on modular UE4 environment creation with clinton
    crumpler, looks like it would be perfect for me.... but I'm broke and cannot afford
    900 dollar course right now (unless some of my shit I put up on ebay sells!)

    But I found some cheap UDK tutorials on modular creation by tor frick that's like 8
    hours long for 60 quid and another one by "world of level design" for like 40 quid
    that's also a similar length, so I might give one of them a go. Also I think I will learn
    a lot by downloading a picking apart peoples scenes that they have put online to
    download for free like the one Helder pinto put on his website.
  • Biomag
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    Biomag polycounter lvl 3
    I had a course with John Gotch at CGMA for Marvelous Designer. Could I have gotten the information for free? Yes. But me personally I function a lot better in classes, the structure and the possibility to interact with my teacher are better than any tutorial. Also feedback. You can't compare online sities sometimes people stepping in with at least once per week feedback from someone who really takes a look at your work. Gotch did a really good job to get you from the basics to getting the stuff into ZBrush. After these 5 weeks I had no trouble getting anything out of MD that I wanted. Only bad thing - videos from class are only available for a month afterwards.

    I had a class with Adam Skutt at GIA - never in my life I made such a quality jump like in that class. Though there is a thing to keep in mind - I came to class knowing the programs and most of the workflow, not a complete beginner like it is often the case with students. I could focus completely on his feedback and improving my eye for details. It changed my perception seeing a top level artist giving feedback to 20 people each week. Its not just about what you learn about anatomy and other stuff, but also getting a far deeper understanding of what he is looking for. If you are an intermediate and going for realistic characters this guy is probably the best teacher you can get. So well worth it and you won't get it anywhere else for free. Also all videos from class and previous classes are available for life.


    Since I've been struggling to both get a job as well as get feedback I am now trying GIA's character bootcamp. Not going to say much about it since it only started. There are some issues I have with the structure, but like with every school you get out of it what you put in. Right now I can say having 2 AAA-artist giving you feedback through out the week helps (not only during class, they are both very active even outside). I am not in for the lectures, they are adressing more beginner issues (not sure if it is just my class that is 90% beginners, but I would asume it not being a singular case...). There is a lot of talking coming from school leadership, but I won't go into it, that's not why I took the course. Still the 2 guys doing the course are there, answering questions and taking their time and getting to know their students' needs - hard to ask for more.

    So in other words, for me it is far less about the information about the workflow / programs as it is about getting quality feedback and getting a better insight how those people see things.
  • Elithenia
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    Elithenia interpolator
    As much as the courses are good, I feel the prices are a bit steep as well for people. Especially if they are advertised to students (who probably have already paid for a degree) and beginners. $800-900 for one course might be reasonable for all the information and such, but for me as an example, I'd not be able to afford that for many years. 

    A lot of the problems are that the good courses, and 'bad' courses are advertised for the same amount.... 
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