Anatomy: Position of eyeballs in head
polycounter lvl 12
Hey Guys,
I was wondering if any of you have any good rule of thumb or any advice how you place your eyeballs in realistic human head sculpts?
I always feel like guessing and end up changing the position a lot of times during my sculpting process. Also I find little to no good reference on the position and size of the eyeballs inside their sockets..
Most reference and anatomy schemes I find, is tackling the superficial appearence of the eye, so mainly the eyelids, but to get this right I feel I first need a solid placement to start with..
Any hints, links, good advice on where to look?
Thanks and Regards
Thilo
I was wondering if any of you have any good rule of thumb or any advice how you place your eyeballs in realistic human head sculpts?
I always feel like guessing and end up changing the position a lot of times during my sculpting process. Also I find little to no good reference on the position and size of the eyeballs inside their sockets..
Most reference and anatomy schemes I find, is tackling the superficial appearence of the eye, so mainly the eyelids, but to get this right I feel I first need a solid placement to start with..
Any hints, links, good advice on where to look?
Thanks and Regards
Thilo
Replies
Start with Anthropometry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropometry
You can measure the exact distances of eyeball, eyeball circumference, and distance from edge of head to pupil.
Here's the anthropometry data for heads:
https://modorganique.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/headanthropometry.jpg
http://www.alexhays.com/loomis/Andrew%20Loomis%20-%20Drawing%20the%20Head%20and%20Hands.pdf
Of course I know my Loomis, also I looked up in my other 2 go-to anatomy bibles, Bammers and Peck, but I kind of missed a top down and front view scheme of the head with the eyeballs visualized...
The MRI slice is pretty good, although it looks like the eyes are rotated outwards - I've had this impression on a couple of models, shouldnt they be rotated inwards though, aiming at the point of focus?
The measurement stuff is pretty good - to be clear though: There are plenty of good references for the appearance/superficial shape of the eye, I'm more troubled by the exact orientation and position of the eyeball underneath though!
- The size of the eyeball is actually smaller then I imagined (varying only slightly from 24mm diameter on adults)
- The lateral dimensions of the eyeball is pretty much framed by the outer corners of the superficial eye (lacrimal caruncle to lateral commissure)
Only the vertical placement is still a bit of a questionmark for me, I believe its center is slighty above the center of the superficial eye, as visualized by most anatomy schemes by the center of the pupil (looking straight forward)
Do you have a reference you're following closely?
I'm not following any particular reference as in likeness, but I have a ton of pictures I like that I keep on cycling through.
For a closure to the original question I thought I'd share where and how I placed the eyeballs on this character now:
I think that image is falling into this issue https://i.imgur.com/XBIOEvZ.gif?noredirect
eg.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/381398662174585747/
Orthos of scans are good too because they remove lens distortion entirely
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/381398662170315161/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/381398662170315114/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropometry
You can measure the exact distances of eyeball, eyeball circumference, and distance from edge of head to pupil.
Here's the anthropometry data for heads:
https://modorganique.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/headanthropometry.jpg
http://puu.sh/sLdtX/03be28d7b3.jpg
I also saw the Andrew Cawrse talk at the zBrushsummit (the last jpg, you linked) - thats what I meant, it kind of puzzled me that the eyes rotate OUTWARDS instead of focusing on a point somewhere in the distance...
In my understanding I always had the impression they rotate inwards, focusing on the point of view...
You have a good point though, the scanned heads show how big of a role perspective distortion plays when speaking about anatomyreference.
we have a large portion of our view that overlaps between right and left, which allows for better detection of parallax.
Additionally we dont need the information coming from the inner areas of our sight (our brains actually learn to crop out our noses since its such a constant presence.
so having our eyes point out a bit gives us a wider field of view, without sacrificing quality of sight.
thats my two-bit hypothesis anyways Im sure theres so much more to that then I could even comprehend.