[3DSMAX] Materials on XRef objects keep resetting

OccultMonk

Every time I reopen the scene the XRef materials have reset.

- I tried assigning a normal material to the XRef objects and it resets.
- I have tried assigning a XREF material to the Xref object and it resets.
- XRef Materials Overwrite On/Off gives the same result.
- The XRef object does not have a material in the XRef file itself.

Does anyone know what could be going wrong here?

OccultMonk

Any suggestions would be great. I tried everything I could think of but I am probably overlooking something.

musashidan

I haven't used xrefs in a while but, as I'm sure you know already, the idea is to reference an external file, the purpose being that in a pipeline the scene being xrefed is locked off so as not to disrupt it in other parts of the pipe. 

So your materials would be applied/saved in the original file and referenced to the new file but, uneditable. So any editing would take place in the original. I know that there are options to break/unlock the link but, as I sid it's been a while since I've used them.

Have you tried using Containers? They were bug-ridden when first introduced so I avoided them but might be worth looking into.

Can you upload your xrefed(or a stripped out/proxy version) scene so I can take a look?

OccultMonk

Containers still do not have a good reputation as far as I know. I use XRef a lot, since I save many versions and would use up a lot of disk space otherwise. How do you manage that without Xref? 

Eric Chadwick

What exactlyvdo you mean by "save many versions"? This sounds like a problematic workflow that might be the root of the problem.

musashidan

Yes, I think @Eric Chadwick might be right. If you're saving many iterations of the same xrefed but with different settings in each file then the links will invariably break. Why exactly are you using xrefs? If you are the only one working on a project then you don't need to. It's much less hassle to incrementally save and merge assets.

OccultMonk

You misunderstand, I save only the main file multiple times. The Xref are mainly used for decimated models. Placing them outside the main file saves space. 

Eric Chadwick

Better to put them all in one file, and use Auto Backup.

OccultMonk

Why? Then I will have 1-2GB files? I save maybe 10 versions a day. Those versions are now only 20-100MB each instead of 2GB+

Mark Dygert

Oh how I wish max handled references like Maya does. It's one of the things I REALLY miss when I bounce back and forth between Maya and Max, especially when rigging characters and building out scenes.

Xref's have a lot of problems, like failing to remember files paths to models and textures... its one of the reasons they came up with containers. They reworked xrefs and then containers a few releases ago but they haven't fixed them. Containers have always caused a huge hit to performance for me and they fail pretty hard as an access point to the referenced files. 

This is one area that you're just screwed if you want to work that way. Its better to import the objects into your scene and then LOD them in the scene with modifiers that you can turn on/off. Make sure to leave them as separate objects so adaptive degradation works as best as it can. 

Check out this video, it has a few tips and tricks for working with LODs inside of 3dsmax.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G2sbjJ7c3k
The LOD dummy object can be handy, so can the LOD utility, as well as the optimize modifier. But yea, there isn't a easy work around for this sort of stuff. Luckily 3dsmax is one of the better programs to push a lot of polys around in the viewport. Good-luck!

Shive

I don't know if you tried it, but check this box:


I'm using xrefs on a daily basis and never had problems with it.
It sounds very much like your materials just get overwritten on reloading the referenced file.
The xref material you're talking about is basically also just a reference to a material in the referenced file, so this is not going to help in what you're trying to achieve.

OccultMonk

Mark Dygert said:

Oh how I wish max handled references like Maya does. It's one of the things I REALLY miss when I bounce back and forth between Maya and Max, especially when rigging characters and building out scenes.

Thanks for the advice though viewport performance is no problem for me. Even with high density meshes. Besides I always generate proxies for the xref objects which works fine. I personally see no problem with working with XRef and have a lot of experience with using them for modeling. It reduces file-size across multiple versions when using large decimated meshes from for example zbrush or modo mesh-fusion.

OccultMonk

Shive said:

I don't know if you tried it, but check this box:

I'm using xrefs on a daily basis and never had problems with it.
It sounds very much like your materials just get overwritten on reloading the referenced file.
The xref material you're talking about is basically also just a reference to a material in the referenced file, so this is not going to help in what you're trying to achieve.

I thought I already tried that, but I will check again. Also, I deleted the xref materials that existed on the objects at some point. So maybe 3dsmax got a bit confused :-)

OccultMonk

I solved it. I think it was caused because I deleted the XRef materials from the scene (only the materials). I then even removed all materials from the objects within the XREF scenes themselves. But that did not solve the problem. I then reapplied a standard material to the objects in the XRef files, and re imported them with option: merge material on. Now the materials no longer reset. It's a bug I think.