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Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite WIP

polycounter lvl 6
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LalaD polycounter lvl 6
Hello everyone!  This is my first post on polycount.  I'm part-way through a personal project, to create one of my favourite Magic: The Gathering characters in 3D.  That character is Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.  I've been posting some work in progress images in the Ten Thousand Hours Facebook group, who have been lovely and given me some useful pointers.  My friend @tda told me I should put them here too because you guys are awesome at giving great crits.  This is the model as it stands currently, lit in Unreal Engine:



I'm an environment artist professionally, so this project was to push myself out of various comfort zones - to try making a character, learn how to use blender (I'm a Max girl), to learn how to use Marvelous Designer, to learn how to rig a humanoid and to use Substance Painter to make materials not usually found in environments and props.

 Here's a dump of the WIP in chronological order so you can see how it's coming along.

Modelling in Zbrush:


@tda helped me loads with this one, figuring out what was wrong with the chest, hips and legs.  I also altered the headplate and limb lengths.

Some remodelling later, and I had an acceptable high poly model.


A quick test pose done with ZBrush's Transpose Master to check it looks ok:


I used Blender to make the low poly retopo (about 55k tris).  I think I captured the form ok but a lot of my edge loops don't make a lot of sense when it comes to rigging.  Having not rigged a character before, I didn't know why it would be important until I tried rigging and posing her, if that makes sense?  It wasn't ideal but it was workable so I stuck with it, did my normal and ao baking with XNormal, and I was onto the part I was most excited for...

Substance Painter



I'm planning to come back to the materials and work some more on the fleshy parts - when seeing her posed and lit and comparing to the original card art, it's obviously too light in colour.  It also doesn't quite look gory enough - definitely on the "to-do" list.

I made the fabric train with Marvelous Designer, used ZBrush to make tweaks and add details, and make a quick low poly retopo to bake to.  Texturing again in Substance Painter.  



I'm currently working on the background characters that hold up her fabric train.  The main reference for them is from the card Priests of Norn.  I would love any comments on the overall form before I start getting carried away with modelling details on them.



All C&C welcome :smile:

Replies

  • Rikard86
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    Rikard86 polycounter lvl 10
    I've been following this project on 10k for a while and I have to say it really kicks some ass.

    The Priests of Norn seem to have extremely thin upper arms on the card, as opposed to the fleshy look you're using on your model. You sure you want to keep going that way? Because that'd be a much more interesting shape in my opinion.
  • LalaD
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    LalaD polycounter lvl 6
    Thanks very much @Rikard86  :smile:
    I considered making the arms like the design on the Priests of Norn card, but the background characters on Elesh Norn's card have more normal arms so I've decided to go with a more humanoid anatomy for them. 
  • Rikard86
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    Rikard86 polycounter lvl 10
    oic,still a pretty good job nonetheless.

    Also one last remark I'd give you is that you can push the contrast on the veins on Elesh's body a bit more since the detail is a bit lost in the overall pic,  experiment with lighting and shades to make them stand out (or put some occlusion in the specular if that really requires it)
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    Hey laura! Only just got a chance to check out the thread properly. She's lookin' badass, the new dude is coming along nice too! I feel like his hands could do with being a bit chunkier, they're looking kinda spindly right now for a dude. I'm guessing they're just the same hands from the other model right now though, untouched? In which case never mind! :p

    I'm going to 2nd Rikards thoughts too in that the muscly sinewey dudes definitely have really interesting shapes going on in their crazy muscles and silhouettes (in the illustration you showed me), i think you could probably work some of that in to what you have while still keeping him more normal human looking like you want to.

    Looking forward to seeing this all finished up! Keep on crankin' away :smiley:
  • LalaD
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    LalaD polycounter lvl 6
    @Rikard86 Good idea, I'll try that when I go back to tweaking her shaders.
    @tda Yep, recycled the hands and they need work. I'll see what I can do about the arms today.
  • LalaD
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    LalaD polycounter lvl 6
    A little update on the high poly sculpt, looking for some feedback please.  I'm not sure about the arm tubes, which are my attempt to incorporate some of the weird sinewy arm shapes from Prists of Norn... do they just make it look like it's got a bingo wings problem?  I've not really worked on the hands or feet yet.

  • artstream
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    artstream polycounter lvl 11
    Hi, nice stuff so far! From the card image, it looks like the priests have a longer neck and less mass in the trapezius muscle. It also looks like the shoulders could be a bit wider and bigger to add to the silhouette. 
  • LalaD
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    LalaD polycounter lvl 6
    @artstream Thank you, you're spot on about the neck length.  I made Elesh's neck too short also (I had to stretch it when I rigged it) so it's something I need to watch out for in future.  I'll have a play with the shoulders too.
  • LalaD
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    LalaD polycounter lvl 6
    Update - I think I'm about finished with the servant sculpt now.  Any feedback before I start retopo?



  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    Yo laura! He's looking sweeeet, here's those crits i was scribbling on as you left earlier. Excuse the crudity, pressure had died on my tablet and i didn't wanna spend time restarting so close to home time haha! :)




    Main points are mentioned in the pic above. My thoughts were based primarily around the concept you sent me (http://i.imgur.com/kSiWfYU.jpg).
    I feel like these guys don't look beefy enough, like, in a strength way not so much in a roid-y muscle way. They have a large frame in the concept which i think you could push more. I know you don't want to match the concept 1-1 with their crazy bone/sinew upperarms, but i feel like the exposed muscle forearm is more visually interesting than a flat plate like what you have, but that's your call. What i'm not a huge fan of though is the little pipes hanging down, they read a little like saggy muscles which fights against the aesthetic i think you should be chasing with these dudes.

    As i mentioned in the pic too I think you need to push the the non-flesh pieces that are intertwined with the muscles, really make them stand out. The hard surface / flesh juxtaposition is really nice, especially in the crest of the ribcage and at the base of the neck.

    I didn't have time to go over the legs much as it's home time now but if you want some input there i'd be happy to take another pass! Hope this helps, lookin' badass so far :D
  • LalaD
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    LalaD polycounter lvl 6
    Better? Will work on splitting off subtools next.

  • Tomiajayi
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    Tomiajayi polycounter lvl 2
    very cool character design
  • Rikard86
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    Rikard86 polycounter lvl 10
    Changing the proportions made him look like a completely new char, gj.
    Don't forget to resculpt the lower back area, I see a bit of stretching there.
  • LalaD
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    LalaD polycounter lvl 6
    Thanks guys :smile:.  I think it's time to start retopo now.

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