Ways to make low poly frayed wire ends?
polycounter lvl 3
Anyone know of the various ways i could make the ends of the copper wire look frayed, but also look decent at different angles, which one would look best and be most appropriate, poly count wise, for an average game? Im modelling an old WW2 radio and to give it some interest i'd like to make it quite detailed as its possibly going to be used in a VR game, seen up close and in 3D. Im donating it to Technolust when im done who is using Unity.
This is what im working with thus far.
Relative size of wires
This is what im working with thus far.
Relative size of wires
Replies
http://jokermartini.com/rope-texture/
Is there a way to make each one look 3 dimensional from all angles? If not i guess i will just orient them at different angles so when some disappear, others appear.
You raise lots of good points, but here it is "it's either modeled geometry or cleverly placed alphas" you wont have much of a choice.
If this is looked at from lots of angles and you don't want to model actual geometry crossfit the alpha planes in a + pose or if you have the leisure to use lots of geo have a look at zbrush micromesh.
This is always overlooked but you could also use your created micromesh and divert it in an alpha map which is also a solution.
Thanks, wish we had a thumbs up button i could press for you
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btw, here is the result i got thus far anyone interested. It looks terrible now IMO because of the light highlight on the outer edges. I had trouble selecting only the AO render of the wires in photoshop because it would also select the grainy bits placed all over the result by the AO render. To make the wires, i used this great plugin called spline fibers (link below) in the later half of the video. Unfortunately when trying to render the AO map, i could only get a decent result by selecting "furthest" resolved hit, which makes it backwards from the normal map so they don't match up. For some reason "closest" would make the render look corrupted.
Spline fibers plugin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYm4jnHjPtE
Also, alpha cards or anything that relies heavily on normal maps for the geometric shape doesn't really work with VR, you need 3D content rather than flat planes for the parallax.
I think it looked better before the alpha cards were added, if its solid copper wire, it wouldn't fray like that, so you could go with that:
I remember hearing someone say something about normal maps not working well in 3D a long time ago and i loaded up a game on my 3D setup and checked for myself and they looked "normal" (no pun intended) to me. I have heard this a couple times since as well. I certainly never noticed any problem with them in 3D on my 46" 3DTV which i view from only just under a meter away when i play for a wide, immersive FOV, so its very clear. It may be easier to notice the fakeness, but again, i never noticed a difference from 2D. However i have been gaming so long in 3D i could very well just be used to it. For illustrative sake, since i know not everyone uses 3D, i can say that if i sit there and toggle 3D on and off watching a first person gun model, the model will simply take on depth when going into 3D, and look flat when in 2D, however the rounded edges and indentations/protrusions from the normal map don't appear to change at all.
That said, alphas placed like this certainly look off if you move your view around, thats for sure.
Thats a printscreen of my alpha channel in photoshop, with just it selected. Not 100% sure if im viewing it correctly or making it right. Its a 4k map in the other shots, so something it definitely off.
The "normal maps don't work with VR" thing is commonly stated, it's not that this is wrong, but rather incomplete advice. Normal maps certainly do work with VR, but you can't use normal maps to fake geometry detail. Your large and medium scale forms should be modeled in whereever possible, while your normal map handles shading (very important) and small scale details.
Basically, if you project complex geometric shapes onto a flat plane, it's always going look painted on rather than having true depth. This applies to standard 2D rendering, but its especially important with 3D/VR.
I've been meaning to write up a more thorough explanation of this concept, but you can sort of see what I mean here:
The top set is the highpoly, which has actual geometry to represent the forms. This will look very good in VR.
The bottom step uses a normal map baked on a plane. This will not look good in VR.
There is a middle ground here (sorry didn't make an image for it), where you would create an optimized low poly that represents the main forms and bake the high onto that. That's how most game assets are made, the only considerations you really need to make for VR is you want to model in as much of the overall form, rather than simply the silhouette as your would historically do. With current gen games, this goes hand in hand with the higher triangle counts we typically work with.
The reason why they do work quite well in 3D is that human depth perception utilizes all kinds of information to make a final judgement about the position of an object on the 3rd axis, such as shadowing and size and clarity and motion, etc, etc. Not just convergence point (eye angle) or focus distance, the later being completely insignificant in my experience, as my experience from focusing just under a meter away from my screen is that if it doesn't look like the holodeck, something is wrong.
You can see your image for yourself in 3D, just as you would with a proper 3D setup or a VR setup. You can do this by using the cross-eye 3D technique, which was the first thing i did when i saw your image and i did not know immediately which one was the normal map and which one wasn't, i had only assumed that one was a normal map, one was geometry and they both looked very 3D. Simply slowly cross your eyes until a center image starts to form and try to get that center image in focus. It takes a awhile at first. I can do it instantly now and look around the image at will, but i have been a 3D enthusiast for many years now.
Also keep in mind the DK1, DK2 and Crystal Cove,etc have all been reviewed by 3D Vision forum members as having a bit LESS 3D dimensionality than their regular 3D setup, although this may change with the CV1 since they implemented a way to modify the lens to match your IPD (interpupilary distance [distance between eyes]), which is great.
I do realize you mean well and i think techniques regarding making low poly detail to supplement normal maps would be a good thing, i'd love to hear the best way to make a LP bolt head since i've got like 50 of them on the front of the radio im making lol and im worried about how they will look. I would just be very careful about how i worded this. I wouldn't say that "normal maps don't work in 3D", i would say "Heres how to supplement your normal map detail to make VR games even better" or something to that effect. I really would strive not to cause concern, at least until VR gets off the ground. I can see a bunch of developers at a meeting, trying to decided whether or not to spend the extra time and money to make VR work in their game, being close to giving the thumbs up, but then hearing, "oh by the way, normal maps don't work in VR" and choosing against. Devs are already having to cope with the 90fps, making 2D shadows and other 2D effects 3D. I have seen so many games cancel or look into making their games 3D only to come back with "we looked into it, it was just too much work".
I do fully understand that geometry is great in 3D. Metro 2033 is probably near my favorite game, which i played twice in 2D and twice in 3D. The high amount of geometry they used, quite like the Dead Space series really added to the experience and was amazing to view. Im someone who stops and looks around in every area of a game and looks at every detail. I doubt if i don't notice anything wrong, many other people would. That said, i admit everyone is different and have different preferences and at 38, i have come from a background where i am used to game worlds being flat and low poly.