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How do I make "simple textures" more professional looking?

JordanN
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JordanN interpolator
So I'm putting together a very special environment I've been working hard on the past few weeks (yay!), however, at the texturing phase, I'm very frustrated with my results.

I'm going for an artstyle that is handpainted but is still physically based. So there are no prebaked shadows in the diffuse and I'm avoiding blending photos in.

Now, what's frustrating me is I can't nail the look of simple or "less detaied" looking objects. Examples:

dnHvlrR.jpg
hIiCW3X.jpg
cfsk3oC.jpg

Even though they appear as 1 or 2 solid colors, when I try to paint them, they look very amateur. I'm also aware that added surface detail like grunge, rust and dirt can help make it more appealing, but I'm afraid of making the texture "too noisy".

I would post examples I made but they got accidentally deleted at school.

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  • Veezen
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    Veezen polycounter lvl 9
    It depends on lighting which is crucial in such objects and textures. Also, sometimes it's better to make high poly model and then bake it to low poly to achieve much realistic result.
  • Obscura
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    Obscura grand marshal polycounter
    Its hard to tell what you are doing wrong, if you don't show us what you have :P
  • Lt_Commander
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    Lt_Commander polycounter lvl 10
    For objects like that, It's important to focus on microsurface detail and getting the feel of the material and letting that do the heavy lifting, but that's generally for a realistic pipeline. It's hard to say what you need to do if you're going for a specific style and aren't giving us any idea as to what you're trying to go for, though.
  • Bartalon
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    Bartalon polycounter lvl 12
    Physically based and hand-painted? This thread might provide some insight to what you're trying to accomplish.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    This might take a lot more time. The textures are still too rough to post.

    I'll report back when I can better show something.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    So I've followed some painting tutorials since Thursday and I'm getting a better idea of how to approach this.

    This is the artstyle I have in mind.

    JoDBdUi.jpg

    I also tried doing the first diffuse texture for the metal electrical socket.

    oQ0UVEv.jpg


    I have an idea how to paint the scratches. It's the plastic sockets though that look boring. I'm going to keep thinking of ways of how to improve it.

    I'm also posting this before bed. I'll have a lot more time when I wake up to try making polished paintings + textures.
  • RN
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    RN sublime tool
    But the plastic sockets look boring in real life, it's smooth plastic.
    In that photograph in the first post it's the lighting that adds interest to it.

    Since you're studying about light and colour, I recommend this:
    http://www.solitaryroad.com/c1032.html
  • peanut™
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    peanut™ polycounter lvl 19
  • fearian
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    fearian greentooth
    If you are working on a physically based texture, you need to be thinking about how all the maps render together - not just the diffuse. have a small amount of faint noise and grunge will reduce the flat color look without going too far. Make it barely visible in the diffuse, then only slightly more visible in the roughness.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    Any idea why my grunge shows up as "white"? I'm trying to make the grunge barely visible, but even when I play with the opacity settings in photoshop it still shows up aggressively in Unreal Engine 4?
    gG4xLgs.jpg

    Diffuse
    SlRVRyP.jpg
    Metalness
    aP1QA3o.jpg
    Roughness
    wVeKxmJ.jpg
    Normals
    hM1KUre.jpg
  • Joopson
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    Joopson quad damage
    I'm not sure what's unexpected about those results to you; your description is a bit vague, but based on the maps, that's what I'd expect.

    The darker parts are glossier, metal, and dark, while the lighter parts are rougher, non-metal, and bright white.
  • Axi5
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    Axi5 interpolator
    JordanN wrote: »
    Any idea why my grunge shows up as "white"? I'm trying to make the grunge barely visible, but even when I play with the opacity settings in photoshop it still shows up aggressively in Unreal Engine 4?

    Your textures are pretty contrasted, you should lower the strength of all of the dirt. I thought you were trying to render simple textures better? Your textures don't match the reference very well. Mess with the base colour first until you get it right, then add some light detail later.

    Also your metalness map is a bit wrong depending on what you're going for. Metalness is just whether the material is metal, unless you're going for painted metal the whole map should be white. I think you meant to have your metalness map as a roughness map instead.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    Axi5 wrote: »
    Your textures are pretty contrasted, you should lower the strength of all of the dirt. I thought you were trying to render simple textures better? Your textures don't match the reference very well. Mess with the base colour first until you get it right, then add some light detail later.

    Also your metalness map is a bit wrong depending on what you're going for. Metalness is just whether the material is metal, unless you're going for painted metal the whole map should be white. I think you meant to have your metalness map as a roughness map instead.

    The sockets are suppose to be plastic and the outer case was metal.

    The grunge lies on the metal casing, so I wasn't sure how to render it (because grunge itself is not suppose to be metal so I made it a different color).

    I agree there's too much contrast though, I'll clean it up.
    Joopson wrote: »
    I'm not sure what's unexpected about those results to you; your description is a bit vague, but based on the maps, that's what I'd expect.

    The darker parts are glossier, metal, and dark, while the lighter parts are rougher, non-metal, and bright white.

    I don't know how to make the grunge show up less visible in the diffuse and the metal maps.

    I want an effect like this but on metal.

    XsRMmhw.jpg

    I'm thinking of having the grunge match the metal's color, but that might not be physically accurate.
  • Axi5
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    Axi5 interpolator
    JordanN wrote: »
    The sockets are suppose to be plastic and the outer case was metal.

    The grunge lies on the metal casing, so I wasn't sure how to render it (because grunge itself is not suppose to be metal so I made it a different color).

    I agree there's too much contrast though, I'll clean it up.



    I don't know how to make the grunge show up less visible in the diffuse and the metal maps.

    I want an effect like this but on metal.

    XsRMmhw.jpg

    I'm thinking of having the grunge match the metal's color, but that might not be physically accurate.

    Okay, metalness maps are supposed to be flat black or white, no greys :)

    For the grunge you'll want to make sure that it's completely black on the metalness map. You'll want the roughness to be really high for it and the diffuse should just be a mid-brown/grey tone.

    Rougher materials catch more light so diffuse colours matter more, if you want some grunge like on the tile, bring the intensity of your diffuse grunge down.

    Finally as just a critique, the texture is too noisy, the human eye is used to seeing large shapes with little attention to detail. Racer445 has an excellent tutorial that goes over a lot of these concepts:
    http://oesterkilde.dk/racer445.html

    So I'd remove a lot of the grunge, maybe only leave one larger patch and work on deforming the edges of it so that it's natural and blended with the metal.
  • Joopson
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    Joopson quad damage
    Ok, so, I quickly went into Photoshop and marmoset to whip up an example, before you posted your wanted-effect, so, I don't know if it'll help much, but, I'll post in anyway.

    Ignore that it's a little ugly, and uses "noise", "clouds", and "oil paint" filters. The point, really, is to show how the maps interact. Most of the heavy lifting is done in the roughness.

    First, with metals, you need a good light environment. An HDR image works well, and can be loaded into the "ambient cubemap" area within a post-process volume in UE4, and Marmoset 2 has it on by default.

    Second, be more subtle with your materials. Yours look very harsh right now. Generally, if it looks harsh as a flat texture, it'll look harsh on the model. Try to learn how the maps interact with each other.

    Most subtle grunge, like your example, is just handled using the roughness map.


    BzLXQ8S.jpg
  • huffer
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    huffer interpolator
    Are Screen-space reflections enabled? Is there a SphereReflectionCapture in scene plus an Cubemap in the enviro?
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    Thanks everyone. I tried everyone's method and it works now.

    It was the lack of an ambient cubemap that made everything so dark. I also turned down the bloom to show the roughness better.
    ZkirBJA.jpg

    mNnxE8L.jpg

    These are test textures.

    Edit: I also did a second test. Less noise in the diffuse.
    4an38Ac.jpg
    mFK5xQa.jpg
  • AdvisableRobin
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    AdvisableRobin polycounter lvl 10
    You don't necessarily need to include the grunge in the metalness map, if you just want the surface of the metal to have variation in the reflection just go ham with detail in the roughness map.
  • Obscura
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    Obscura grand marshal polycounter
    You don't necessarily need to include the grunge in the metalness map, if you just want the surface of the metal to have variation in the reflection just go ham with detail in the roughness map.
    :thumbup::poly142:
  • peanut™
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    peanut™ polycounter lvl 19
    I see those from time to time, not sure if any of this helps but once again:

    pins_and_pinholes_tutorial_by_pirosan_d35cs5p.jpg
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