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An idea: Video games should target black and white.

JordanN
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JordanN interpolator
I was thinking about how advance games (as well as CG in general) has gotten. But even with these advances, games still aren't close to photorealism.

Look at any old black and white photo and it still looks better than games.

yOfZssp.jpg

Of course, it's not the lack of color that makes it real, but the most accurate lighting simulations, realistic physics and incredible attention to surface detail that makes that above WW2 photo look better than any game.

So why black and white? Cost effective. Black and white only has you focus on two colors (or one?). For global illumination or reflections, you're not worried at how saturated or what the correct hue bleeding should look like. Only, what should the value look like.

Once games master this, then they could move on to 60's or 70's era color TV's (which again, still look better than games).
wXKnQbF.jpg

Of course realistically, I know most games wont ever do this because of marketing reason. But it would be something I would love to do personally.

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  • Joost
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    Joost polycount sponsor
    tcKCx1N.jpg

    Could look awesome if done right I guess. Would taking out the colour actually make it easier to achieve realistic renders?
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    komaokc wrote: »

    Could look awesome if done right I guess. Would taking out the colour actually make it easier to achieve realistic renders?

    There's a whole scientific chapter dedicated to what exactly makes color.

    It's certainly a very complicated topic that for any artist interested in photorealism has to take into account and with this, it creates time.

    The use of color could also tie into current limitations with games. Do game engines take into account color temperature before requiring artist intervention for example.
  • JedTheKrampus
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    JedTheKrampus polycounter lvl 8
    I know in the Frostbite 3 paper about their move to physically based rendering they made it so you could set light color with a color temperature. So it's not unheard of... would be nice to have it for lights in Unreal though, and people have requested it. Unreal also has a blackbody node that gives you a color output for the material editor, which can be useful for getting accurate colors for particle effects or industrial environments with emissive textures, but which is pretty useless for lights.
  • BeardyDan
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    BeardyDan polycounter lvl 2
    For the sake of argument, let's assume everything you say is true and this would lead to "better" (more photo-realistic graphics) I would still say "no" because;

    "Better" is subjective, give me awesome art direction over OMFG photo realism any day. Black and White is generally boring unless heavily stylized.

    Second, it would seriously fuck with gameplay. An FPS where the characters don't read well against the environment would be a frustrating mess. In games like Uncharted you wouldn't know what to climb etc etc. Colour is used heavily as a way to identify things, ranging from something as obvious to enemy classes to subtle environmental elements designed guide the player. I was playing Far Cry 4 earlier and coloured smoke is used to identify drop types in the Arena, in fact it uses colour in this way frequently, as do most games. We must remember we are making games, not movies.

    Third, colour can be used to envoke different moods in the player, for examples blues are a good way to invoke feelings of isolation and coldness, and I'm sure we're all aware of the stereotypical grey/brown shooter.


    Fourth, good luck selling it.
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    Yeah, fun time.
    BeardyDan wrote:
    Second, it would seriously fuck with gameplay. An FPS where the characters don't read well against the environment would be a frustrating mess. In games like Uncharted you wouldn't know what to climb etc etc. Colour is used heavily as a way to identify things, ranging from something as obvious to enemy classes to subtle environmental elements guide the player.
    It's true color makes things easier to identify. However, I wouldn't consider that the above all reason.

    Contrast.

    As long as contrast exists, you will still be able to separate objects from each other. You don't need to color to identify water in the OP picture. It's strikingly obviously what is what (soldiers, beaches, rocks etc). It would also become more apparent in motion.

    It's also not just color responsible for helping you see.

    When Valve was designing TF2, they specifically crafted the character's silhouettes so you can instantly recognize each character from each other. This likely plays just as an important role as "blue vs red".

    b5hnNn9.jpg



    Although I can understand where the limitations would come into play. Maybe for such a game, it could make specific elements have color when needed (i.e blood, weapons, or shirts). Like Madworld.

    GL878yc.jpg
  • BeardyDan
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    BeardyDan polycounter lvl 2
    It's easy to pick apart a still image, but when it's in motion it's difficult, especially if you're the one in control.

    Also, I was discussing this in the context of achieving photo-realism, which in my mind means no stylized silhouettes. I've nothing against greyscale games that are heavily stylized, like Limbo.
  • Noren
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    Noren polycounter lvl 19
    As a designer, I'm of the opinion that games need a certain visual clarity that real life visuals just cannot provide. A proper visual clarity makes eveything more relevant and meaningful.

    Chaos
    That Crysis(?) screen is by no means chaotic and shows the hand of a designer, composition and visual clarity. This has nothing to do with being meaningful or not and you seem to talk more about style and personal preferences.
    "So why black and white? Cost effective. Black and white only has you focus on two colors (or one?). For global illumination or reflections, you're not worried at how saturated or what the correct hue bleeding should look like. Only, what should the value look like."
    Hyper realistic black and white will not be considerably more cost effective, in my opinion, especially if we look at large productions.

    It's not that the idea isn't interesting, but more as an experiment and again a question of style. To suggest the whole industry should take that path is a bit silly, in my opinion.

    The most important factor of something looking convincing is the value relative to the contrast, btw. You could completely alter the colors of an image and while looking psychedelic, it still would look somewhat real.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    I'm of the opinion that both are important depending on the game and the goal. There is nothing wrong with running from realism and focusing on clarity. For some games this is great. For other interactive experiences, the realism that can come from lighting and color are just as ideal. The latter, however, is definitely harder to get right, and if not done correction... alienation occurs.
  • BeardyDan
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    BeardyDan polycounter lvl 2
    I always hate it when in realistic looking shooters it goes greyscale due to low health, as I often find it incredibly difficult to identify the twat that's killing me lol. Granted there are other aspects to this, such as Post Processing for near death states, and my own sense of panic, but it doesn't help.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    It wouldn't sell well, so it's not going to happen. Even if the graphics were 3-5x "better" you are still sacrificing a lot in order to achieve that.
  • Stinger88
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    Stinger88 polycounter
    JordanN wrote: »
    Black and white only has you focus on two colors (or one?).

    Black is the lack of colour
    White is all colours

    Here endeth the lesson.
  • Selaznog
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    Selaznog polycounter lvl 8
    I'd say we're pretty darn close... Here's a screenshot from the new call of doopy
    (made it black and white, adjusted levels to match ref, added film grain to match ref)

    AgaXpYv.jpg


    I think graphics will get better as the capabilities of machines get better (individual blades of grass, real time water simulation and not shader work, etc)
  • Higuy
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    Higuy polycounter lvl 9
    Sorry if its already been said, just kinda skimmed through the thread, but one thing to keep in mind is that color/color theory plays a big role in games. From helping be another visual clue for what something is, they can be part of a level design, mood setting, and so forth. They have a big role in games. Strictly speaking, and should be quite obvious, doing black and white in a game is easy as pie. But a lot of people don't do it for those very reasons, since it can be so vital to making the game work.

    However, one game stands out in memory that did not use color and was hugely successful, Limbo. However we should keep in mind it was also 2d and slightly cartoony/stylized, not exactly what you were aiming for with realistic graphics. but it did contribute to artistic perspective and mood that the game was aiming for and in the end was able to work with its level design and mechanics quite easily.
  • Noren
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    Noren polycounter lvl 19
    I strongly disagree. It looks like someone took a nice picture and didn't adapt it for games. Here is a more obvious similar example. The character blends with the environment, the gameplay path looks like the background, etc. Nothing stands out. And the lighting adds noise to the image. It doesn't help to read things.

    Obviously, it doesn't represent the game, it's a random example, but it well describes the problem.



    I was talking about a specific picture you described as chaotic when in fact it isn't. It's probably even a carefully arranged shot, guiding the eye. The rules you cited apply to a degree but you seem to take them as gospel and miss the context. Maybe one of the challenges of a game is to identify camouflaged enemies. Maybe the path is supposed to look organic and hidden. Maybe not even a path at all and yet the player knows where he can go. Maybe not from a still image, but certainly in context of the game. The rules you cited make no sense to that absolute degree you want to see them implemented and games "need" not do anything.
  • Deathstick
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    Deathstick polycounter lvl 7
    I wouldn't necessarily say that having everything almost blending together is a bad thing in an environment which is trying to capture a natural landscape and the feeling of getting lost or exploring in the woods. In that case the environment should very much look like it's a part of one another. Paths are the most important part really for navigation in something like that, and then the usual waterfall/red contrasting plants, follow the yellow brick road of level design.

    Although I do get your point in that games really are made to stand apart from realism in design decisions that affect the player's readability and ability to navigate a 3D space on a computer monitor without becoming frustrated or remaining lost for too much time. Basically a short anecdote of this in working-practice is how camoflage in games usually is designed to give the feeling of camo, but infact has elements on it that completely go against the whole purpose of camo in real-life, like how Valve designed the hgrunt texture pattern in HL1. or the whole let's be stealthy and wear a snow camo in a blue/snow environment to hide from the enemy, but we'll make sure to wear complementary orange decals that lite up like a Christmas tree!

    The best of both worlds really is to design a level or environment that feels natural in it's structure, yet is actually very specifically designed to lead the player through the correct path without getting the feeling of running into invisible walls of doom all the time.

    Basically, keep Truman from learning the truth that his life is a TV show on a large set while guiding him along with set paths and rewards to influence his decisions :)

    On the topic of the OP, even if it is easier to make black and white look closer to the "realism" of a black and white photo I would not want to be playing 100 games of black and white games without feeling depressed or bland. Once in a while and done with a specific vision or reason behind it is fine, but for god sake not every game. I love color!

    Which by the way, you can argue photographs themselves are a defacto illusion of the real object. Photographs aren't really "real" either due to the flattening of the image, camera lens, manipulating the focus, and the all important artist behind the photo who distorts the viewer's perception of reality in both the style and subject matter that is photographed by said artist.

    I don't find myself walking around seeing noise grain in dark shadows, blinding walls of over-exposed light, lens flares, or soft-focused closeups on every object. These visual elements have become so engrained in the visual language of "reality," due to the constant repetition and viewing of these elements from a culture that has been engrossed in the mediums of photographs and film for over a century. (two if you go back to calotypes and
    daguerreotypes)
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