Realistic Character: Reimu Hakurei Bust
polycounter lvl 8
Thread Defunct; starting anatomy studies, see here: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143200
Hi, I'm starting a project where I'm hoping to make a realistic character bust rendered in Marmoset Toolbag 2. As a loose concept the character Reimu looks like this:
In order to make a realistic interpretation and to try and make an asian face, I'll be using actress Yui Horie as a reference for this:
Finally for her hair, I've got a simple reference board that I can take inspiration from in order to put a bit of a spin on the character:
This resource in particular has been very helpful in getting the asian shapes on the head more correct.
http://majnouna.deviantart.com/art/Guide-to-Human-Types-part-1-32046017
Finally we move onto my current progress. At the moment I have base shapes down, trying to get it at least looking like a japanese woman, and its surprisingly hard. I'd like to try and get this face right before I start playing and planning hair.
Feedback would be much appreciated!
Hi, I'm starting a project where I'm hoping to make a realistic character bust rendered in Marmoset Toolbag 2. As a loose concept the character Reimu looks like this:
In order to make a realistic interpretation and to try and make an asian face, I'll be using actress Yui Horie as a reference for this:
Finally for her hair, I've got a simple reference board that I can take inspiration from in order to put a bit of a spin on the character:
This resource in particular has been very helpful in getting the asian shapes on the head more correct.
http://majnouna.deviantart.com/art/Guide-to-Human-Types-part-1-32046017
Finally we move onto my current progress. At the moment I have base shapes down, trying to get it at least looking like a japanese woman, and its surprisingly hard. I'd like to try and get this face right before I start playing and planning hair.
Feedback would be much appreciated!
Replies
Or start with planes of face.
To be brutally honest and take this lightly the way you have started off is counter-productive because you've set out to model an Oriental woman and gathered some reference for that which is good so far then you have gathered and started to sculpt based off of a caucasian female?????
What's the point in that if you are going for realism?
Decide what you want to model oriental female or caucasian and then sculpt whatever you choose don't blend both because they do not have the same features at all.
In anime they tend to blend many different features and exaggerate features sometimes from other races aswell but if your going for realism it's not good practice to do that unless it's required for some reason.
If your going for a blend of both then find reference of a female that is mixed raced and shares caucasian and oriental features and that way your sculpt will be more realistic because it will be based off of a real person.
Other than that though keep working on it looking forward to seeing this one progress!
Thats a pretty good sign that I've failed. Lets try this again.
I've been strictly using Yui Horie (the girl in the moodboard that is not about hair) as a reference with the goal of it being a japanese female as the subject (and if a likeness to her is achieved, thats even better). She is the only person being used for this sculpt but clearly I must be doing something wrong if there are Caucasian influences, but a bit blind to see them. In this post, if you could point such errors out I'd be quite thankful.
In other words, the Caucasian influences in the sculpt are not purposeful, they are errors that I would like to be pointed out.
Ok, I've gone over and tried to convert the whole thing into plane faces, so to speak. Bearing in mind the asian skull from the following references:
This info is all from this guide:
http://majnouna.deviantart.com/art/Guide-to-Human-Types-part-1-32046017
I can't just ignore these shapes; they have to be a part of the forms in order to make the ethnicity clear (or rather, as clear as my current ability is allowing). Brace yourself, this looks quite wierd, but it did help me correct many placement errors that were fundamental:
I thought of this as a sort of skeleton to add skin and fat to, and after a while of staring at my references and revising the sculpt many times, I've come up with this:
Matcap Grey
MatCap Sculpy2
Comparison of the old versus this revision:
I ended up closing the mouth (but still with the mouthbag, teeth and so on still in there) because it became a massive distraction from getting these shapes as close to correct as I could. Theres a small gap to prevent projection crossover should I project it this way.
I'm hoping that this is closer to the reference that I'm using, and at the very least, trying to give away her Japanese ethnicity, with the protruding zygomatic bones, the Brachycephal head shape and the more pronounced epicanthal fold. If theres any Caucasian looking parts or other incorrect parts with regards to the reference it would really help me out if you could point it to me.
http://maquillageobscura.blogspot.com/2009/11/difference-between-asian-and-caucasian.html
Asian on the right side.
ALso check her head width with eye ratio. Or the space between her eyes. Most of the times, the face width is 4.5 - 5 eyeballs. Nose is 1 eyeball wide, and lips is almost 2 eyeballs wide.
So this post is possibly going to upset you, and that's okay... I'll understand. But it's going to contain a couple of knowledge bombs and shared experience, along with some piercing questions, so let's begin.
You're not ready for this. You're currently not displaying basic anatomical principals when it comes to human head sculpting, realistic or otherwise. I understand the desire to recreate your favorite characters, i really really really really really do. And it's good that you have that drive. but you're not ready yet.
You need to focus on doing some head studies. Sculpt some skulls, sculpt the muscle structures on those skulls, sculpt the fatty tissues... build it up over time, build up your understanding of how a face is constructed. And then you'll be ready.
You also need to focus on recreating the character as s/he actually is! I wonder, have you ever made her before in the same style she originates from? can we see it? do you consider it to be great, or even good? If you can't recreate this character in the style she originates from, then you can't hope to understand how to translate that character accurately to another style. It just won't work, it doesn't happen, i know because i've tried, and i've failed.
So please, abandon this project FOR NOW. Come back to it when you are ready. Make a new thread which focuses on sculpting skulls, and learn how to do that. I promise you, if you do that every day for a fortnight you'll look back on this thread and laugh, if you do it for a month you'll be ready to move on to muscle structures. It won't take long, but you're not ready now.
I think there is another way that you could learn how your particular characters face works by drawing her. Do about twenty to thirty short timed drawings of your character and you will start to notice things that you overlooked before about your character. It's a really fast way of understanding what your sculpting but at the same time helps you make those mistakes much faster and learn what you need to do in order to make your character look right/ more like your reference. Remember what you've learned and make notes on features and what you've learned after doing your sketches and then translate that to your sculpt.
This is actually also in line with what almighty gir was saying but gives you a stronger faster traditional foundation in understanding this particular characters anatomy and flow which you'll be able to then translate to your sculpt.
Also it might be a good idea to post your reference actual orthographic references here so we are able to comment on particular features etc at the moment we have no idea what your reference looks like?
Have you got front and side refs.
Keep on it.
http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143200
@Melonman: I wasn't really able to find orthographic views of this woman, or of any japanese person for that matter, but I thought the the idea was that I should know enough anatomy to be able to do this. Clearly I am lacking in this regard, and need to invest the time into more fundamental study. I'm not a great traditional or 2d artist, but I might try and give your advice a go on the same sorts of things: skulls, muscles, etc.
@PyrZyrn: Cheers for trying, the info you've posted was really informative, and hopefully I'll make good use of it when I return to this project.
@JadeEyePanda: Well that's a new level of fail for me to achieve... there are placeholder eyes.
@almighty_gir: Truthfully, yeah, I am a little upset, but the only person I am upset with is myself; I think its a real eye opener for how bad I actually am at what I do, and now a sort of relaxed but determined will to improve and expand my portfolio turned into "oh crap, I seriously need to improve right now". I really do want to improve and be able to give my favourite characters justice in terms of look and feel in a real-time engine so I will take your advice. Thank you very much for your post; I think one of the reasons I never really too to doing a built up anatomical study in depth is because I got accustomed to not really feeling like I needed to do it; this is a feeling that is incubated by not showing your work to public places like polycount and keeping to a small clique that, while good natured, is not necessarily as harsh as they need to be, and a post like this is the kind of kick up the arse I need.