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Sculpting a Character

rockbox
polycounter lvl 6
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rockbox polycounter lvl 6
I'm trying to sculpt a character head to look realistic. what I have here is the base head imported from 3d max and I'm not sure on how to go about sculpting details. dmx6.png

I tried importing my reference to the spotlight and lowering the photo transparency to sketch out certain wrinkles and lip definition but havn't had much success with that.

Can someone point me in the right direction to learn how to sculpt in the details of a character's face?

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  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    So I sculpted the ear and made a few changes to the face.
    4qfm.png

    xgbw.jpg
    Any techniques for detailing?
  • Dimfist
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    Dimfist polycounter lvl 8
    Look up planes of the head to understand how the basic shapes of the average head are. Also try to learn how the muscles sit under the flesh and on the bone. When wrinkles form they are perpendicular to how the muscle lies. Get some references and just keep practicing. One of the hardest things to do in true sculpting is old age wrinkles. It just takes time to get it down.
  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    Thanks for the tip Dimfist, I'll get some ref images of muscle structure in the face. I have reference I've been following that has wrinkles, poors, etc. but for wrinkles and smile marks and all those details I don't know which brushes are more effecient for that.

    What techniques do people use for those, which combination of brushes etc. I know poors can be made with noise and smoothing, but what about other parts of the skin that don't have the same type of poors as the face.
  • Dimfist
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    Dimfist polycounter lvl 8
    I basically use the clay brushes to slop in form. You can change the alpha to a round one for when you refine the muscles. Be careful when smoothing because you may get rid of some happy mistakes that way.
    Also make sure when you are blocking in form to stay at a low sub-d.
    As far as wrinkles you can use the dam standard pretty effectively. Zbrush central is a great resource for free brushes and alphas.
    For the fine details of course you can use all kinds of alphas. Save your morph target so you can paint over the alphas with the morph brush to make them more blended in without destroying your sculpt.
  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    I'm not sure I know what ya mean about the morph target. Do you mean save the morph target of the model before sculpting the details and sculpt on the copy and then use the morph brush to blend the details to the original?
  • Dimfist
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    Dimfist polycounter lvl 8
    yeah you can set morph target at any point. Do that before you add noise and alphas for sure so that you can go back over the sculpt with the morph brush and it will help you blend in the alphas without destroying the underlying sculpt.
  • daemoria
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    Zbrush also has a layer system that allows you to add details in a non destructive manner. Take a look at the documentation here for a quick detailing on the controls. http://docs.pixologic.com/reference-guide/tool/polymesh/layers/
  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    Dimfist, thanks for the tip. I just had some practice with the morph brush when I changed the topology of the body and had to reproject details onto the new body.

    daemoria, I actually tried this layer system for this purpose while I was trying things out on my own. I made the mistake of not pressing the record button and so my changes were already baked in and my layer was a useless empty layer. Such is the learning process... haha.



    EDIT: I'm having a strange artifact now on the body after changing to other materials...
    t5td.jpg
    Anyone know what is causing this?
  • mr_ace
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    mr_ace polycounter lvl 9
    you have checked m or mrgb at the top, which will paint whatever matcap you have selected onto the mesh, and then you've painted the area you see there. to fix it, just select m, with rgb and mrgb turned off, select the flat colour matcap, then go to colour>fill object and it will reset the material fill
  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    mr_ace, thanks that fixed it!
  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    Ok I added some subtle details and pores and now before I throw some texture on there I have a few questions.

    l8qf.jpg

    1. I see most people sculpt the eyebrows right on the head without a texture so I was wondering...How do they texture all those little brush strokes that make up the strands of hair? It seems like painting over it with a color would paint the skin part too along with the hair.

    2. Would the same process be done for beards? I have a texture I was going to use and project it on the head but then I realized that the texture is of a man with a stubble beard. the beard I want to make will be a smoother, longer beard so would it be a waste of time to paint the stubble texture and then a beard on top? I'm also thinking the line where the stubble stops at the cheek won't match up with whatever beard I make.

    3. the texture I want to use is a bit lighter skin tone than I want in the final product. would this have to be darkened in photoshop or is there a better way of changing the tone of the skin?
  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    any crits? I worked a little more on the form of the folds by the mouth and the cheek and temple area.

    h9l8.jpg

    dmo6h.jpg
  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    Am I posting in the wrong forum? Maybe nobody is responding because I posted in the wrong forum. Or if I'm posting too much and aggravating people?...
  • Der Hollander
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    I dunno if you're posting in the wrong forum per se, but I think people have probably gotten tired of saying the same speech over and over again to new ZBrush users.

    Dimfist's comments are right on the money, but I'd like to add some points to it:

    1) Start Slow, Start Small - The #1 mistake, by a margin of some 90% of ZBrush users is they do 2 things: They try to make too large of a project without knowing the program, and they subdivide way, way too early in the project. You need to work the form early, the model should still be fairly low-res until you've got the proportions locked in tight. Also, don't attempt to make an entire character, it will overwhelm you like nobody's business. Try doing some quick busts, freeform organic shapes to get a feel for the program and then work your way up.

    2) Reference is KING - If you're not just noodling around, and sometimes even when you are, you should never NOT have reference somewhere on your desk. A secondary monitor and possibly HDD are incredibly worthwhile investments to make your life easier, although not required. Start compiling a reference library. It doesn't need to be an active search, but when you're working on a project and you need to see how something looks/works, take a trip to Google images and then SAVE ALL THE THINGS. More reference will always help you in the long run. That being said, one of my personal favorite reference sources for people is movies and TV shows. Get the highest definition version of whatever media you need (Like if you wanted to make a Joker sculpt from the Dark Knight, or wanted to do a beefy guy so you grab the Rundown or Doom for some Dwayne Johnson action) and then screencap the holy bajeezus out of it. Different camera angles, different lighting, close-ups, get it ALL. Of course, your absolute best reference will be you going on a field trip with a decent camera (an iPhone camera or equivalent will do just fine).

    3) ZBrush is NOT a magical "Make it pretty" application - This is pretty much just a combination of points 1 and 2 with a few things added. You will get better with ZBrush as you start to learn the tools better but the most important tools in your arsenal are the fundamentals, and this includes brushes, tools, etc. For organic sculpting, there is not a thing you can't make by just using the Standard, Damien Standard (DamStandard), Clay, Smooth, and practical application of masking. That's it, pretty much 3 brushes and your Shift key are all you really need to make pretty much anything organic. The last ingredient of course, is patience and lots of it. A sculpt handled in a controlled manner will look fairly low-res and not cool for about 95% of the total work you put into it. When you gain a better understanding of digital sculpting, you'll discover tools that make your workflow faster and allow you to more efficiently utilize the understanding you've gained by doing it the hard way.

    To cap this all off, I'm including a few links for the ripening of your mind-grapes.

    Crazyfool's Vimeo page Let this amazing man's sketch sculpts blow your mind and show you how to start from scratch into some of the best sculpts you ever seen.

    The ZClassroom Portal Pixologic-approved tutorial videos and tutorial forum for make benefit of glorious learning.

    A Goddamned Genie Ask it anything you wish to learn and it will provide. Quality may vary.
  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    Der Hollander, First I want to say thank you for taking time to write all this down and go in depth to give me some pointers. I think your post will help others like me find advice easier when they come across this thread.

    I know that you should start at low subD levels and add levels as you need them to focus on proportions. But for most things I start in 3ds max with all the proportions and base mesh. That's when I bring it into zbrush. I already have the whole character I've worked on for a while I only posted about the head because I feel that I am at the end of the base mesh proportions stage and on to the touching up, and details phase of the body.

    That being said I posted my progress so that the professionals and salty zbrush users can tell me where I need to improve or what's wrong with what I have. And I'm at a bit of a stand still not knowing what the pros use for doing details like facial hair sculpting and texturing.

    That screen grabbing the ref from movies is a good tip! it's sometimes hard to find good reference from google but there's so many angles to grab from motion pictures!

    I wouldn't consider myself a zbrush beginner, as I've spent some many months learning a lot of the basics and fundamentals (digital tutors has done a fine job teaching their lessons) but I'm not quite intermediate I guess since I haven't yet finished a complete character.

    Once again thank you for all of this great information and also the links I will check out now! I'll post some more progress shots soon.
  • drysider
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    drysider polycounter lvl 9
    The problem though is that you're trying to dig into doing tiny details that likely nobody is really going to notice on a game character before refining and fixing the facial anatomy problems with your sculpt.

    The most obvious problem is his mouth which is tiny on the rest of his face. Because he has a very small mouth the area between his mouth and nose is very long and throws off the rest of the proportions. Just because he's a dude doesn't mean he has to have tiny thin lips!

    img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=7513349

    It can be hard to sculpt male lips without them looking too girly but I've found that by trying to 'suggest' the shape of the lips more than sculpting them lovingly to be thick and puffy works well. It helps to make them squarer in shape - a more boxy shape to the lower lip will help give them a masculine touch.

    I'm going to assume you don't really come from a 2d background. Another think that your sculpt is missing is accurate facial planes, like you can see in this:

    planes.jpg

    face_planes_by_gilesruscoe-d56y4xd.jpg

    Your face, at the moment, is characterized by very rounded features - a round jaw and chin and cheeks and forehead. He needs more definition and structure below his skin before you start adding wrinkles. Obviously not as extreme as the examples above because those are really pushing the edges, but try to have some more confidence in your edges and definitions especially for a male character.
  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    Ok I made some changes to the mouth,making it wider and fuller lips. I defined more of the bone structure as well as adjusted eyes and colored the eye balls to get a better picture of how the eyes should look. A lot of these features though are steering away from my reference and although I think this looks better, it's less accurate to my reference images. and the mouth still looks weird but in the reference the lips are that size and shape... though it kinda looks puckered..

    w0kp.jpg

    m6y0.jpg
  • arcitecht
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    arcitecht polycounter lvl 6
    Getting better, but it still severely looks like like a subdivided basemesh. Don't be afraid to really get in there and make mistakes. Sculpting faces requires that you learn the anatomy and the planes and are thus able to go in and attack the mesh boldly. Put pores out of your mind for a long time and learn the basic shapes.

    http://www.youtube.com/rkingslien

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bQ6QHcg6s4"]Sculpting The Face - Webinar with Ryan Kingslien - YouTube[/ame]
  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    I get that it looks like a base mesh but the reference of the person I'm working with does not have all that facial anatomy showing through the skin. he's not terribly skinny, nor is his bones very defined in the reference that's why I'm affraid that making a sculpt so detailed in that all the anatomy shows is that it will be so far from my reference it won't be realistic or it will be a totally different person. every face is different, everybody (though having the same underlying anatomy) has different features and for some the definition shows, and others it does not. I mean this is what I'm obviously stuck on and can't get better until I understand why I should put all that detail in when the reference says that they shouldn't show. you know what I mean? i mean is that something that gets better when the texture is on?

    for example:

    here is some of the reference I'm using from 3d.sk see how the anatomy doesn't show much? that's what I mean. I'm just trying to stick to the reference.

    0bev.jpg

    akt9.jpg
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    Your reference is great, and part of that is how much "anatomy" is showing. I don't know exactly how you're using that term, but to me I can see a great deal of planes of the face , of muscles and other landmarking that would make me excited to use this guy as a ref.

    Part of getting better is going to be learning to seeing things. It's not easy, but the more you know what to look for, the more that becomes apparent.

    Your ref really does have a ton of interesting landmarks and facial planes, especially in the eyes, the chin, and the forehead. Some of it is more subtle, but it's definitely there.

    This is why learning the planes of the face is important , because they train you to see the construction in a different way, and to pull out the planes even in more subtle faces.

    Edit: my paintovers are shitty and whatever, but all of these planes should be present in your sculpt, as they are all evident in the reference. To me it seems like a lot of information to work with.

    1VqSDjw.jpg
  • arcitecht
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    arcitecht polycounter lvl 6
    Well put. A lot of the skill comes in being able to see what's really there, then recreate it. For that reason, I'd suggest actually not using photo reference of actual people just yet, and instead work on creating heads from the inside out based on the skull and muscles.

    I'd recommend checking into ryan kingslien's workflows for beginners (sphere and dynamesh). It's a pretty hardcore way to get into sculpting based on traditional methods, and not really production efficient, but you will be forced to get that anatomy knowledge. He knows what he's talking about more than I ever will so definitely give it a look.

    Also, it just takes a shitton of practice to really understand. So don't ever be discouraged, you will get better and it'll be worth it.
  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    Yes, now I know my problem is that I need to learn what's there under the skin in order to see it. Even with the red lines marked for the planes I still don't really see them... But atleast I know what I need to work on!

    I will take some time and check out ryan kingslien's other videos and learn that anatomy. thanks for the great responses yall!
  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    ok I studied the skull and muscles and tried to replicate that in these shots...

    2pa4.jpg

    bq9j.JPG
  • Dimfist
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    Dimfist polycounter lvl 8
    Ok. The huge thing you are missing, when they say you are working at too high a division level means, yes you are working with too much geometry. I know you said that you took it from 3ds max but if you want to work in zbrush there are some tools that can help you get the basic forms in a matter of minutes instead of tug/pull in 3ds max.
    My suggestion would be to look up 'Dynamesh ZBrush' and start from scratch with a dynamesh sphere in zbrush. Keep it real low poly wise and and push and pool with the move tool until you start seeing the shapes you want.
    Also, to get those planes of the face down, just over exaggerate them a bit then you can start to cut into them to get the shapes down.
    I know its a lot to take in but being a character artist is not an easy thing. We are all struggling to be better everyday! There are a few guys on this website that are the best...and you should really take their advice to heart.
  • Dimfist
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    Dimfist polycounter lvl 8
    Oh btw the first character I ever did was Elvis, and I had all these crazy references from when he was all different ages. I couldn't get one good set locked down like you did and guess what happened. It looked like a cross between Elvis and myself because my mind starting filling in blanks. :D You got some good reference there, I'd maybe do some level adjustments so you can see the shapes a bit better, but having a front and perspective shot is more than you might get working on a game concept.
  • rockbox
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    rockbox polycounter lvl 6
    I do value the advice all you gentlemen are giving me and I'm making changes based on it but I don't see how I still have the wrong forms from working with too high geometry.. the screenshots I post is not the level I'm doing the big changes on. in fact on that model it's level 7 and I work from levels 2-4. But, you're suggesting that I should stop starting in 3ds max and startover in zbrush? Is that the proper, more efficient workflow? I'm asking because maybe I'm learning the wrong practical workflow too.
  • dazzerfong
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    There's two workflows, low-poly mesh it first, or Dynamesh, but the main problem right now is that you're not entirely grasping onto the features of the face. Your method only works if you modeled the low-poly well enough to accomodate the rough 'planes' of the face, but if you're not familiar with them, Dynamesh it, because if you do that, you don't have to worry about making topological mistakes early on.

    As for working on high topology, well, there's no point right now, because all the details you need right now is just capturing the planes of the face. Before you go onto details, you need to get the planes right, or it'll look strange.
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