Lurker needs help with train2game :S
Hi everyone,
I'm a long time lurker here, I don't feel like I have the skills to post any work atm, but I'm looking for some advice and/or help.
I'm part of a group of extremely unhappy students, who are enrolled on the Train2Game courses in the UK. We feel we are being supplied with substandard content, along with not being supplied with the items and features of the course that are promoted during the signup process.
A lot of the course materials are copied from various online sources and is all outdated - we don't use any game engines as part of the course, and none of the courses actually make anything close to a game as a portfolio piece.
We're all stuck in contracts paying ~£135p/m for 3 years. We were promised proper tutition, access to a work placement scheme, help with finding jobs after completing the course, the works ... but these either don't exist or aren't up to scratch.
We have pleaded with them for change and updates, but we have been given PR/ corporate standard answers (which don't answer our concerns) and feel like we're being laughed at.
The following two links are to threads on the student forums, displaying our feelings and replies from T2G officials.
The original thread where issues were raised :: http://forum.train2game.com/showthread.php/19817-Course-feedback-so-far
The latest thread were more concerns have been raised :: http://www.forum.train2game.com/showthread.php/20783-Train-2-game-dead-again
Any help and advice on where we should turn, or our options would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
I'm a long time lurker here, I don't feel like I have the skills to post any work atm, but I'm looking for some advice and/or help.
I'm part of a group of extremely unhappy students, who are enrolled on the Train2Game courses in the UK. We feel we are being supplied with substandard content, along with not being supplied with the items and features of the course that are promoted during the signup process.
A lot of the course materials are copied from various online sources and is all outdated - we don't use any game engines as part of the course, and none of the courses actually make anything close to a game as a portfolio piece.
We're all stuck in contracts paying ~£135p/m for 3 years. We were promised proper tutition, access to a work placement scheme, help with finding jobs after completing the course, the works ... but these either don't exist or aren't up to scratch.
We have pleaded with them for change and updates, but we have been given PR/ corporate standard answers (which don't answer our concerns) and feel like we're being laughed at.
The following two links are to threads on the student forums, displaying our feelings and replies from T2G officials.
The original thread where issues were raised :: http://forum.train2game.com/showthread.php/19817-Course-feedback-so-far
The latest thread were more concerns have been raised :: http://www.forum.train2game.com/showthread.php/20783-Train-2-game-dead-again
Any help and advice on where we should turn, or our options would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Replies
Unfortunately i dont really know what kind of action you can take here, other than to warn any prospective students of what they'l be getting themselves into. Aside from a slim few, almost all game schools are not worth your time and money. Join polycount U and reap the benefits of a free education.
Best of luck here
edit: Forgot to mention, if you're not being instructed to use a game engine in a game-centric course then that sums up the overall quality pretty well
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/
all of their help and advice is completely free. and they're on your side until there's evidence that you're in the wrong.
I was so skeptical at first but their sales guy really got me with the "work placements" etc.. I thought I had a chance at getting a foot in the door :S
Many thanks again, I will keep this post updated (hopefully it might stop other people signing up) .. and polycount u is my new way forward
I hope you can find a way out of that contract...that sounds like a shitty situation.
This just crystal clears everything.
Wow O.O
Usually if someone posts something like this on PC, PC makes people (who are responsible for something like this,) suffer and brings them to the point where you cant access their website anymore because its been shut down. (Not linking the threads but I have seen it happen.)
FYI, you may get a 'diploma' from these people on completion of your course, however it is completely worthless. It's not worth the paper it's printed on.
If you are unsatisfied with your course, you are entitled to be able to take a refund and break that contract - it's a fundamental consumer right (and basic legal right, since you could consider them to be in breach of contract by not providing adequate services). I would contact the Ombudsmen and encourage others to do the same if they are also unsatisfied.
P.s. Paying £5000 for a distance learning course on Games QA just says it all, really. As for the 'City and Guilds' carrot on a stick and it being equivalent to a masters, this seems way too good to be true. There are newer NVQs which are generally considered an equivalent to a Masters, but you won't get them through a course like these. Most people take NVQs as an supplement or alternative to GCSEs or A-Levels.
Cancel the course buy a dt and 3d motive subscription do the work and your all good
Also post wips on polycount.
BRING FORTH THE PITCHFORKS!!!!!!!!!!!
No really, these guys have been sharks for years.....TIGA needs to sort its fucking act out too, as at the moment it is an INDUSTRY trade body giving credence to the shittest rip off course in the UK.
http://www.train2game.com/about/
fucking bullshit......five grand for a pointless piece of paper with a course you could learn more than on digital tutors....
I was especially surprised by the reaction of the staff member to your request of tutor feedback : "I’m interested to know about your requests for tutor interaction. Again this is something some prefer and some don’t".
As if personal, directed feedback is some alien concept they haven't considered yet, and that some people don't want this... oh boy.
Im on the artist course.. I have both of their section 1 +2 (year 1+2) books .. No colour theory so far.. Everything is extremely out of date.
The carrot on a stick for me was the job placements, work experiance and the city and guilds level 7... However .. none of that is happening, Im expecting a call from t2g today, following that I will be in contact with a lawyer, ombudsman , trading standards etc...
As you'll see the posts are months apart, I gave them a chance .. and I get laughed at to my face ..
Thanks for all the help, I will be a regular here from now on posting as much work as I can
Thanks again
I remember being contacted by the main dude to retract my comments from a game journo site. Since then i've had many people contact me who are curious as to whether it's a scam. Is it? In one sense yes. They falsely advertise what they to offer when it is drastically inferior to what we have here on the polycount wiki, which is free. On the other hand, I think they are really trying to put out a course that would be a cheaper alternative to University, which it is. But there is no reason why you can't get a part-time job and learn stuff from the internet, like eat3D, Polycount, 3Dmotive and the like. Something that I should have done.
I do hope this helps somewhat. If it was me in the same situation again, i'd certainly avoid it. There are cheaper and far superior learning material out there.
The job placements would be lovely, but it's a shame, I hope you manage to get your cash back.
This 1000x.
Read this though not sure on the rules over the water
Definitely a weird rule with the contracts. Never heard of that before.
This law allows customers who are "blinded" by a sales pitch to go home, read through the paperwork, and decide if it's really what they want.
The real sadness is that they gain some legitimacy through TIGA who I think should be pressurized to severe ties with train 2 game to maintain some form of legitimacy and credibility.
just stick train 2 game scam in a search engine you are bound to find something, and if you find deleted content that's often when they have sued someone for libel or threatened legal action.
Good luck on getting your money back but contract law is often airtight in the UK.
Trouble is, if you're signing up for a multiple year duration learning course, is 21 days actually enough? This date is from receiving the finance agreement as well, not from receiving course materials, which likely come later.
This.....Any kind of industry accreditation legitimises them in the eyes of prospective students. It wont do anything, but Im writing an email.
I would hope that you get it sorted out but as they have hooked you up with a finance deal and already taken their money I cant see your lender being too sympathetic
Tiga being happy to associate with them is not good....another email going their way I think.
I have to say they got me when I had completely given up on everything, The only benefit is that it got me doing work again... However..
Little update: I was contacted by Train2game to discuss the issues I had with the course, 40 minutes of asking them where the hell the money was actually going.. I was asked to wait 9 days (6 remain) so they could bring forward their plans to improve.
At the end of those days I could leave with a full refund if I was still unhappy, I agreed and now waiting for cuthulu to walk the earth...
I cant see much changing but I have a way out and so do the other students I've become a spokesman for.
Again thanks so much for the replies here
I am glad its looking like you will get your cash back although I fear it is more damage control above all hush a few people and get back to business as usual.
Well I would love to come back and say everythings great however its grim..
At the start of january I was banned and deleted from train2games forums (no reason given)
I then recieved a call telling me I had been suspended following train2game seeking legal advice against me.
Currently Im locked out of all the training , they refuse to speak to me in any way or form.
All because I wanted proper training :S
I;ve been in contact with citizens advice etc, Who had to try for 3 days to get anyone from train2game to speak to them .. They cant move further until the legal threat arrives in my mail.
So yeah, Basically they have succeded in destroying my passion for 3d art.. I try to do tutorials etc .. but I get extremely depressed doing them of late.
I have no idea what I am ment to do now, This company has basically destroyed my life goals and any passion I had.
Oh .. and all those improvements they said were coming .. Yeah .. nothing has happend..
Fun and games continue.
If you're just not feeling the tutorials and prefer the online coarse route, try Gnomon and other workshops out there. That might help give ya a little kick to get back on it
Best of luck with the situation
And i'll take a look at the gnomon courses.
i'll give myself a few days to chill I think.. Hopefully it will help
Gnomon is a great resource as mentioned above. Personally I also really enjoy the video training series from Digital Tutors, 3dmotive, and Eat3D as well. With a few courses from each of the above sites along with getting feedback on Polycount and some dedication, you'll be able to obtain great knowledge in many areas of game development before you know it.
The best way to learn how a game is made is to dive in and start making them. I would suggest trying to build a game in Unity3D by yourself from start to finish, and do everything yourself including modeling assets, texturing, writing gameplay scripts, making shaders, etc. as this will give you a taste of the entire pipeline. From here, you can choose to focus on the aspects of development you enjoy the most and start working towards a professional portfolio.
It's important to keep in mind realistic projects however. Don't install Unity with the intention of making the next big AAA game as this will only lead to frustration and could crush your motivation. The other thing to keep in mind is that it isn't a race. Take your time, if you need to repeat lessons to understand a topic better, go ahead and repeat them.
If you already know what you want to focus on, then the best thing to do would be to work on that specific area (it sounds pretty obvious haha). If you want to make art, then spend time making art. If you want to program, then spend time programming. It's the only real way to get good at anything and anybody that tells you otherwise is probably lying their ass off or trying to steal money from you.
I have a four year degree. One of my last required courses was called "Career Skills"; it was meant to help us get our portfolios polished, train us for interviews, and generally prepare us for the business end of a career as creative professionals.
The "professor" that had been assigned to the course was a walking disaster. He wasn't a full time employee, had almost no connection with our major, stereotyped his students, made snap judgements, and couldn't critique beyond basic observation because he wasn't tech savvy enough to understand our projects. (I'd be surprised if he knew the job title most people in my major applied for.) His approach was to make you as nervous as possible. At first I thought this was just a teaching method to prep us for interviews, but then he started sitting fourth year students in front of the class and telling them they were better suited for an entirely different career. And THIS was the guy prepping us for the job market?! In the end a few students filed complaints (thankfully we were legally allowed to do so) and to my knowledge, he's no longer there.
I knew what had happened was complete BS and not an accurate portrayal of what the industry was like, but I couldn't shake the feeling that something was off. I kept second guessing my decisions, my work ethic suffered, and I couldn't work up the courage to even apply for a job, let alone go in for an interview. Again, I knew what had happened was BS but somewhere I had lost my direction.
Luckily you get over it. It takes a little while but you'll get passed it eventually. It might help to physically write down your goals on a piece of paper and execute them one by one, even if you feel the contrary. If you went into T2G to learn character art, start a character project or do the monthly noob challenge if environment art is your thing. In any case, start making something and posting your progress. All skill levels are welcome here, you're not making an ass of yourself by learning.
Ah, I just noticed the most recent update and the time difference. Either way I hope you get back into things that your passionate about. A bad company shouldn't be given the power to ruin your passion. After all that will always be yours.
Yeah man, they just go straight for the legal libel suits etc if you say anything against them like I said before, so I take it they didn't make good on their refund? you will want to take screens of these emails for evidence in a small claims court or a bigger one if it warrants that.
Any organization working with train2game should be ashamed of themselves, I am fundamentally surprised that train 2 game is still in business, its the sort of organization that should of lost legitimacy and been shutdown.
http://www.collativelearning.com/SKILLSTRAIN%20SCAM%20&%20REFUND.html
Here is a good idea of how they operate.
Oh and my increasing demands that could never be satisfied (aka Asking for a proper education as was sold to me)(I have issues with that statement)
Again thanks to those of you replying and getting in touch, It seems I will have to fight them to the end.. I still cant get over tiga's involvment.
2. contact the financial ombudsman (by phone, i cannot stress this enough) and ask if they will be willing to represent you in this matter, i doubt that they will turn you down and they have been (in my experience with other matters) absolutely fantastic.
3. contact a solicitor, and be ready to go to court.
4. kick their asses man.
5. i'm about to contact Eurogamer and see what their stance is about allowing them to continue with their recruitment at EGX.
Really TIGA?
i realise i'm just a small fish in a big pond here, but it can't hurt to ask, right?
I filled out my details on the train2game website couple of weeks ago, got contacted yesterday by someone who arranged a visit with one of their people for today, he came earlier this morning, he answered all of our questions (spoke to me and my mother), we watched the dvd he'd brought which gave an overview of the programme and what they do.
He mentioned that all the coursework would be online, so traveling anywhere wouldn't be an issue, he also told us that all the learning materials would be supplied, as would the software. I asked him which licenses would be given, and he said they're commercial, and that i can keep them after the course, which is great, i'm currently stuck with an ancient version of Max that is under an educational license, so a full suite with commercial license, that i can keep using after the course, would be great.
But.....after reading through this thread, and one of the ones linked from the train2game forums, it doesn't seem as good as we'd thought.
is it really that bad?
they throw you a good sales pitch, get you to sign a airtight contract then are off with your money giving you some reworked tutorials you can find for free online, avoid like the plague.
Industry people will all tell you to avoid this e.g. https://twitter.com/mikeBithell/statuses/319185862481022976
Anyway, I've got a spare .edu e-mail if you want to register (and need a .edu email address) if you wanted to update any of your software. Might as well get something out of my college "education" lol.
Consider that that not for profit institutions, with campuses etc. expect students to buy $50 books. There's no WAY a for-profit online school will buy you a $5,000 software license. And that's just for Maya or Max, what about Photoshop, ZBrush etc? It just wouldn't happen.
The best you could hope for would be some kind of educational discount, which many schools and software developers offer. Again, Autodesk gives out three year educational licenses for free. But supplying you with commercial licenses? No way.
Do not sign anything for these people. You're much better off subscribing to Digital Tutors etc., and buying your own licenses with what's left.
Yeah, i know about the 3 year edu license thing, thats how I got my hands on Max 2012, I just said "Home school" when i was filling out the registration form, :P The version of Max I have is Max 8, and while it's a edu license, it's perpetual, paid about £2000 for it back in 06, along with an edu of PS CS2, which I upgraded to CS4EX in 08, though i might try switching to SD and SP (got the indie pack on steam)
I've already got a free account on DT, so that's something at least.