these suggested prices are almost double of what they should be.
maya monthly rent should not exceed $100 in any way.
yearly upgrades are not worth $1840
they should really look at Adobe's pricing
Photoshop CS6 full = ~$1000
Creative Cloud single app monthly = $20
2% of full price
______________________
MayaLT full (with subscription) = $915
monthly = $50
these suggested prices are almost double of what they should be.
maya monthly rent should not exceed $100 in any way.
yearly upgrades are not worth $1840
they should really look at Adobe's pricing
True but in that case why would you ever buy a perpetual license?
You wouldn't but why would they care? If you rent for several years, they'll make more on you in the end. $200 is stupid.
Can you rent one version for several years?
I'm on my phone so can't dig through AD site but from what I know many companies are still on 2009/2010 with internal tools heavy developed for those versions.
Only a few jump ship right away.
Can you rent one version for several years?
I'm on my phone so can't dig through AD site but from what I know many companies are still on 2009/2010 with internal tools heavy developed for those versions.
Only a few jump ship right away.
Rentals do not have access to past versions. So I am assuming you would be forced to upgrade your rental when they release new years.
I think subscription licensing was an inevitability. I'm just wondering why it took Autodesk so long to jump on this sales model, though the pricing is still outrageous. Adobe's pricing is so much easier to swallow. $20/mo for Photoshop seems like a bargain when you consider that many pay three or four times as much for their cell phone or internet service.
It seems like Autodesk knows that this is the way the industry is moving, but are so reluctant to adopt the practice that they are pricing their software in a way that discourages people from actually utilizing the rental option.
I think subscription licensing was an inevitability. I'm just wondering why it took Autodesk so long to jump on this sales model, though the pricing is still outrageous. Adobe's pricing is so much easier to swallow. $20/mo for Photoshop seems like a bargain when you consider that many pay three or four times as much for their cell phone or internet service.
It seems like Autodesk knows that this is the way the industry is moving, but are so reluctant to adopt the practice that they are pricing their software in a way that discourages people from actually utilizing the rental option.
Right, exactly. $20 for Photoshop. Sounds good. $200 for MAX? LOL. That's not pricing for individuals, that's for corporations.
not even kidding about a month ago i was discussing subscription software with a friend and made a joke that if autodesk was to do application subscriptions it would be hundreds of dollars per month
Being one of those old-fashioned guys I'm mostly against subscription licensing. However I wouldn't mind it if there was a permanent return out of an extended payments. I think it's a bit rubbish that customers could continue paying for these subscriptions for years but at any point the stop, lose the program they have poured hundreds, if not thousands of dollars into.
It's great for keeping up to date with the latest versions though.
Being one of those old-fashioned guys I'm mostly against subscription licensing. However I wouldn't mind it if there was a permanent return out of an extended payments. I think it's a bit rubbish that customers could continue paying for these subscriptions for years but at any point the stop, lose the program they have poured hundreds, if not thousands of dollars into.
It's great for keeping up to date with the latest versions though.
well correct me if i am wrong, but for the subscription you get service and not a product. same as phone, utility etc. you stop paying and stop getting the service. however it only works well when if it is moderately affordable and the service is good so that enough people subscribe to make enough profit.
well correct me if i am wrong, but for the subscription you get service and not a product. same as phone, utility etc. you stop paying and stop getting the service. however it only works well when if it is moderately affordable and the service is good so that enough people subscribe to make enough profit.
Yeah but an art program is still a functional object outside of it's perpetual upkeep. Just like how if I stop paying for telephone service I can still functionally operate the telephone, pressing buttons etc. In terms of the telephone it's use is synonymous with it's perpetual need to be connected. However a program once complete that's not required to facilitate a constant connection will run it's code regardless.
A better analogy for my point of view is a magazine subscription: you are paying for the service of having a magazine made and sent to you and if you stop paying, you get no new magazines - but you still get to keep the ones you have.
To me an ideal solution is if you get say a 2 year subscription, you get all the benefits of the products and services that this implies, but if you stop paying after 2 years you lose your services and get no special updates (maybe still critical bugfixes/service packs) but still retain the current version of the program. This way the customer has paid adequately, but doesn't risk an all-stop situation should their needs cap out.
People who can comfortably afford it, like/need to stay up to date, or enjoy the provided services may well be convinced to keep paying - which is already what I'm sure the providers are hoping for.
and that's why I hate SaaS (Software as a Service). We're just giving away more and more control of what we purchase back to vendors who can obsolete and control software at their leisure enabling them to hold you hostage. Maybe that's the reason why some of our clients still haven't updated from Max 9.0
well correct me if i am wrong, but for the subscription you get service and not a product. same as phone, utility etc. you stop paying and stop getting the service.
except with my phone contract when the contract ends I can still use the phone, sure its old and outdated but its all I need. Why cant they do the same with software? 3d software is not a service...its a tool, like a phone, the telecommunications network connection the phone uses is the service.
@Snacuum - yes, usually you only get to keep a phone ONLY if you either bought it at full price excluding the monthly service fee or finished a contract for 1-2 years covering the cost of that cell phone's retail price. you just dont get to keep a $300 cell phone by just paying few months of service.
so for autodesk, it would be logical for them to offer an offline/perpetual mode after say 2 years sub is complete.
@GED, yes i get that but a phone without connection is just junk. in this case it is the license fee that is comparable to connection. without activated license your software is just junk.
I would take some innovation over a rental option any day.
I would even pay full retail for a version of max that manages to catch up to industry standards.
Hell, I would even settle for a version that has all of the laggy and buggy legacy issues that have been in it for years, resolved. But we can't even get that, instead they just toss more slowness in and jack up the UI even more. What they did to the curve editor in the name of unification was almost unforgivable and really demonstrated how much they don't know about their own software...
Tinkering with the business model isn't making the user experience any better.
To protect yourself, you'd need to make sure you were keeping your files also saved into app agnostic formats, like FBX. Sure, you won't get the native Max stuff saved in there but, hey, better than nothing...
@Snacuum - yes, usually you only get to keep a phone ONLY if you either bought it at full price excluding the monthly service fee or finished a contract for 1-2 years covering the cost of that cell phone's retail price. you just dont get to keep a $300 cell phone by just paying few months of service.
so for autodesk, it would be logical for them to offer an offline/perpetual mode after say 2 years sub is complete.
@GED, yes i get that but a phone without connection is just junk. in this case it is the license fee that is comparable to connection. without activated license your software is just junk.
Just to clarify, I was always stating that the permanent reward within a committed and acceptable priced term. So I was not implying that you would get to keep a bargain program after quitting a sub a few months in. Since most software packages radically change with updates, new release versions et.al. at least every few years or so, I consider a few years fully paid subscription to be an acceptable requirement to qualify keeping a capped version - so yes, exactly like mobile phone contracts.
I disagree that a phone is junk without a connection since keeping it has value for switching to a different service, and not to mention many phones these days are like little wifi tablets as well. I also disagree that a software is junk without an activated license since the licensing protocols are not the intended function of the program itself, but as a part of the sellers' business requirements. If anything, piracy proves that.
I disagree that a phone is junk without a connection since keeping it has value for switching to a different service
exactly, without that service the primary function(ie. making phone calls) is switched off rendering it a useless device in that respect.
also when i mentioned "phone" first, i was mainly talking about land phones, not a smart phone or a tablet.
all that being said, i completely understand what you are saying about the license.
it has nothing to do with the primary function of the tool.
if it were up to software companies, they would make the entire application cloud based which means you wont even have to install the software in your own computer. but there are lot of technical problems with that which why they still have to provide us the entire tool and resort to licenses for authorized use.
exactly, without that service the primary function(ie. making phone calls) is switched off rendering it a useless device in that respect.
also when i mentioned "phone" first, i was mainly talking about land phones, not a smart phone or a tablet.
all that being said, i completely understand what you are saying about the license.
it has nothing to do with the primary function of the tool.
if it were up to software companies, they would make the entire application cloud based which means you wont even have to install the software in your own computer. but there are lot of technical problems with that which why they still have to provide us the entire tool and resort to licenses for authorized use.
I was also talking about land phones in my first post.
Yes phones are intrinsicly tied to their requirement of service, but I was imply stating that having (not renting) a phone carried greater value and flexibility. You could have the phone and the service as separate products.
Unfortunately software doesn't have this option at present. If I rent 3ds max from Autodesk and then decide to call it quits there is no flexibility. I don't get to keep anything and I have nowhere else to go, I can't leave and then say rent 3ds max from Pixologic if they offer a better deal. The only form of competition is to choose a different software package entirely.
They could do it from the cloud I'm sure but that's the exact type of 'too much control' that some of us object to.
I dont really understand how software can ever be a service, activating a licence is just a switch. I cant come to your house and turn on your oven and claim that I have provided you with a service for which you must pay me monthly...the electricity the oven uses is a service not switching on the oven.
The service part comes (or should) come in the form of free updates and maintenance. Creative Cloud has been great on this front so far... New versions, new features, etc.
I dont really understand how software can ever be a service, activating a licence is just a switch. I cant come to your house and turn on your oven and claim that I have provided you with a service for which you must pay me monthly...the electricity the oven uses is a service not switching on the oven.
it can become a service when you don't pay for the full retail price of the software up front. at least that is the logic behind subscriptions for software sales as i understand it.
for something like an oven i am sure you paid for it in full up front didn't you ?
it can become a service when you don't pay for the full retail price of the software up front. at least that is the logic behind subscriptions for software sales as i understand it.
for something like an oven i am sure you paid for it in full up front didn't you ?
not paying for something up front but instead paying to use it monthly is a rental not a service. Thats how I imagine it any way, the difference between a rental and a service is that the service is on-going and absolutely necessary to make the product function eg broadband service provider or tv licence or electricity supply.
Anyway Im getting off topic and Im actually kinda looking forward to seeing the uk rental service get started.
Replies
maya monthly rent should not exceed $100 in any way.
yearly upgrades are not worth $1840
they should really look at Adobe's pricing
True but in that case why would you ever buy a perpetual license?
other than the obvious reasons, you wouldnt!
Can you rent one version for several years?
I'm on my phone so can't dig through AD site but from what I know many companies are still on 2009/2010 with internal tools heavy developed for those versions.
Only a few jump ship right away.
Rentals do not have access to past versions. So I am assuming you would be forced to upgrade your rental when they release new years.
It seems like Autodesk knows that this is the way the industry is moving, but are so reluctant to adopt the practice that they are pricing their software in a way that discourages people from actually utilizing the rental option.
and it's still a joke
this license was 90 days for $200:
http://store.autodesk.com/store/adskus/en_US/pd/Autodesk_3ds_Max_90-Day_Fixed_Term_License/productID.258308200?noscroll=1&mktvar004=521003
http://www.cgchannel.com/2012/11/autodesk-introduces-90-day-licences-for-max-and-maya/
I was wondering why the "buy" was removed
https://www.google.com/search?q=3ds+max+90+day&oq=3ds+max+90+day&aqs=chrome..69i57.3495j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
It's great for keeping up to date with the latest versions though.
well correct me if i am wrong, but for the subscription you get service and not a product. same as phone, utility etc. you stop paying and stop getting the service. however it only works well when if it is moderately affordable and the service is good so that enough people subscribe to make enough profit.
Yeah but an art program is still a functional object outside of it's perpetual upkeep. Just like how if I stop paying for telephone service I can still functionally operate the telephone, pressing buttons etc. In terms of the telephone it's use is synonymous with it's perpetual need to be connected. However a program once complete that's not required to facilitate a constant connection will run it's code regardless.
A better analogy for my point of view is a magazine subscription: you are paying for the service of having a magazine made and sent to you and if you stop paying, you get no new magazines - but you still get to keep the ones you have.
To me an ideal solution is if you get say a 2 year subscription, you get all the benefits of the products and services that this implies, but if you stop paying after 2 years you lose your services and get no special updates (maybe still critical bugfixes/service packs) but still retain the current version of the program. This way the customer has paid adequately, but doesn't risk an all-stop situation should their needs cap out.
People who can comfortably afford it, like/need to stay up to date, or enjoy the provided services may well be convinced to keep paying - which is already what I'm sure the providers are hoping for.
except with my phone contract when the contract ends I can still use the phone, sure its old and outdated but its all I need. Why cant they do the same with software? 3d software is not a service...its a tool, like a phone, the telecommunications network connection the phone uses is the service.
so for autodesk, it would be logical for them to offer an offline/perpetual mode after say 2 years sub is complete.
@GED, yes i get that but a phone without connection is just junk. in this case it is the license fee that is comparable to connection. without activated license your software is just junk.
I would even pay full retail for a version of max that manages to catch up to industry standards.
Hell, I would even settle for a version that has all of the laggy and buggy legacy issues that have been in it for years, resolved. But we can't even get that, instead they just toss more slowness in and jack up the UI even more. What they did to the curve editor in the name of unification was almost unforgivable and really demonstrated how much they don't know about their own software...
Tinkering with the business model isn't making the user experience any better.
Just to clarify, I was always stating that the permanent reward within a committed and acceptable priced term. So I was not implying that you would get to keep a bargain program after quitting a sub a few months in. Since most software packages radically change with updates, new release versions et.al. at least every few years or so, I consider a few years fully paid subscription to be an acceptable requirement to qualify keeping a capped version - so yes, exactly like mobile phone contracts.
I disagree that a phone is junk without a connection since keeping it has value for switching to a different service, and not to mention many phones these days are like little wifi tablets as well. I also disagree that a software is junk without an activated license since the licensing protocols are not the intended function of the program itself, but as a part of the sellers' business requirements. If anything, piracy proves that.
exactly, without that service the primary function(ie. making phone calls) is switched off rendering it a useless device in that respect.
also when i mentioned "phone" first, i was mainly talking about land phones, not a smart phone or a tablet.
all that being said, i completely understand what you are saying about the license.
it has nothing to do with the primary function of the tool.
if it were up to software companies, they would make the entire application cloud based which means you wont even have to install the software in your own computer. but there are lot of technical problems with that which why they still have to provide us the entire tool and resort to licenses for authorized use.
I was also talking about land phones in my first post.
Yes phones are intrinsicly tied to their requirement of service, but I was imply stating that having (not renting) a phone carried greater value and flexibility. You could have the phone and the service as separate products.
Unfortunately software doesn't have this option at present. If I rent 3ds max from Autodesk and then decide to call it quits there is no flexibility. I don't get to keep anything and I have nowhere else to go, I can't leave and then say rent 3ds max from Pixologic if they offer a better deal. The only form of competition is to choose a different software package entirely.
They could do it from the cloud I'm sure but that's the exact type of 'too much control' that some of us object to.
it can become a service when you don't pay for the full retail price of the software up front. at least that is the logic behind subscriptions for software sales as i understand it.
for something like an oven i am sure you paid for it in full up front didn't you ?
not paying for something up front but instead paying to use it monthly is a rental not a service. Thats how I imagine it any way, the difference between a rental and a service is that the service is on-going and absolutely necessary to make the product function eg broadband service provider or tv licence or electricity supply.
Anyway Im getting off topic and Im actually kinda looking forward to seeing the uk rental service get started.