Should artists looking for a first job be using Marmoset?
interpolator
Pretty simple question, mostly self explanatory I think. Marmoset is easy to use and makes your work look great, but is it good for portfolio work? It requires no technical ability, and I'm wondering if it might leave a question mark in employers mind whether you will be up to the technical side of game art in a more complicated engine/pipeline.
Replies
um what ?
But I think I see what you mean, since marmo specializes in in good sharp presentation render and game engines don't typically match this quality it may be seen as "cheating". My answer to that is don't worry about it, good art is good art no matter where you choose to showcase it.
Really? I'm surprised. Seems to me that Marmoset requires almost no technical knowledge. Open it up, import a model, and assign your maps. Hard to see where the technical bits come in. Lighting etc. seems to be more artistry to me. Just the way I see it though.
Compared to a traditional renderer, where materials and shaders require technical knowledge of the rendering system and the way real-life materials work, using parameters like BDRF, roughness, IOR, and IMS lighting, global illumination to control lighting power, reflections and refractions, etc.
It's also not as easy to work in an engine like UDK or Cryengine as it is Marmoset, and requires marginally more technical knowledge or skill.
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maybe I'm really off-base here. I suppose it's a good thing I asked.
Similar levels of technicality can be found in UDK or Cryengine, or other sources, particularly as PBS and PBL begins to trickle in. Perhaps it would have been better to use that in my analogy.
you still need good technical knowledge to make something look good in marmoset. just take a look at the material tutorials in marmoset website.
besides, majority of the marmoset renders i see out there have a distinct marmoset look to it that it is easily recognizable (not a good thing). this is also the case with majority of art shown in UDK or CryEngine.
marmoset has a good IBL system out of the box but texture need to be made according to make the best use of the shaders in there. also, skin shading is not super easy in Marmoset to get right easily.
UDK has a great node based setup where you can pretty much make any kind of shader with minimal technical knowledge as well. lighting is a bit more tricky though. however, skin shaders are easier here to setup quickly without making extra skin tone maps.
Cryengine offers really nice skin shader among other things right out of the box, but once again lighting is more tricky here. metal shaders are also quite easy and the control on gloss with blurred reflection allows for more quality more easily which is not possible in most of the other engines.
so every engine has its strong and weak points.
if you are a hiring manager or a lead in charge of hiring then you should be able to see the true technical quality of the work despite of the render engine it is shown in.
also, some of the things you mention above are for offline rendering such as IOR for reflection or refraction, GI, etc. offline rendering obviously should be a separate topic. for any offline render you will need lot more technical knowledge depending on what render you are using. for example, renderman or arnold any of the other third part render can be more technical than regular out of the box mental ray.
I just got hired and I was told that my art was really good and it was a huge plus that I put my environment into UDK.
I also highlighted some of the assets in my environment using marmoset.
The end result is what matters - you could render the most beautiful scene in Quake 2, and it'd have more of an impact than an ugly marmoset, cry3, udk, etc image. That is an extreme example, key point is your art needs to shine and show well. If Marmoset is the answer, awesome. If not, maybe udk or cry3 is? Don't box yourself in by thinking you must show something in x,y, or z - your art is the star, and the rendering tool is the delivery for your vision.
Play with all of the tools and find what suits you, Marmoset makes some pretty images, but you can also get pretty images out of other things too.
Knowing UDK or Cryengine and showing it would have more impact for your tool knowledge, but in the end tools can be taught, raw talent and a good eye is much harder to teach.
Maybe showing the same asset in multiple engines could be interesting, athlough that probably borders on time waste.
lucky u guys who live in this gen,
but still ,marmoset will give you more hard time than good if you want to do full environment portfolio.
If the method doesn't really matter, use whatever shows your work off the best. Having the technical knowledge of an engine is a plus, but at the end of the day you're selling your image as best you can.
i've seen some not so great work come from people who just toss their model in marmoset, fiddle with some materials and slap a polaroid post process on there with some god awful chromatic aberration. in the end its just a tool and good art will look like good art no matter where you put it. also marmoset is moving into the world of PBR so in some cases it may be even more beneficial to use than udk if you're just doing model presentation.
personally i dont really like presenting single models in udk or cryengine just because its a bit too much to do for such a little result. granted there are some great results that come out of both engines but ultimately i think if you've got a single model (character, vehicle, etc) without really anything else going on.. nothing wrong with marmoset for showing it.
And there it is.
I used marmo for my portfolio when I got my job. /me shrug. If your potential employer freaked out that you used marmo I would worry more about them than your portfolio.
It's a game engine, its' got legit as balls shaders, and its easy to setup. They should be trying to emulate them if anything.
But in the end, Using Marmoset to render out single props and meshes is totally rad and fine!
+1! really good point!
If you're going to be using Skyshop anyway then that's not a problem, but otherwise you're going out of your way just to avoid a (seemingly unlikely) problem in the future.
Why pay for marmoset at all? Writing your own shader is free.
You could but... why?
I'd say get one model into UDK to prove you know how (although I really don'
t think it matters in the end.) Learning an editor is a fairly simple process if you're a modeler / prop guy.
Import mesh, use supplied premade shaders, hook up textures, insert parameter. Win.
If you're an environment guy however suddenly it waaaay more important, but in that case you should be using an editor as Marm is probably not to good of a choice for setting up an environment in. Could be a nice choice to show the environment shots in editor and some specific objects you're proud of in Marmoset.
Thank you guys.
so i think when i have the possibilities, it is not wrong to use both right? i mean it will provide the portfolio not? What do you guys think?
Using your own node based shader in unity / unreal is a bit more impressive but looks similar if not a bit worse, depending how much you take the advantage of the engine and spin an environment around it. Marmoset is a great value in terms of quality for given speed and effort.
If you are going into the "im an artist using 3D, not a 3d modeller" route at a higher seniority, you don't care about wires, textures, bakes and whatnot, you show off your one beauty render in perfect composition in a fashion that nobody dares to question your technicality, and then you use the best and the brute force, and that is offline.
The guy above in the marmoset render has a car of equal model quality and could surely model the houses in the bottom below as well, (although he likely wouldn't design his own car on such level). Learn the tools you need, the end result counts. Go the extra 40% on your model and you can probably spare the next 5.
Just needs the right approach and attitude to your portfolio work.
If you are at that level, Be an artist, not a prop creator and sell yourself accordingly.
What perplexes me is people putting the Marmoset icon in their renders. I understand its to show off that the model is rendered in 'real time', but mentioning it was used in the description should be enough, and the icon kind of takes away from the quality of the image. My two cents anyways.