Superman

ScudzAlmighty

-Apparently not- Calling this done for now.
About 3(ish)weeks off and on. Huge thanks to those in waywow who gave crits, armt/torso ratio was adjusted in the lp
The suit is mostly based on the Man of Steal version with a few small differences, mainly the size and style of the trim around the boots and going down the legs.
He weighs in at 14686 tri's and uses a 2048 diff, spec, normal and skin translucency map, with a gloss stored in the spec. Rendered in good old Toolbag.

new:


old:




a couple zb shots:

MM

i think for a super hero he looks short. typically it should be minimum 8 heads tall and in general 8-9 heads tall gives a good heroic look.

also, the waist area looks too wide and the leg silhouette looks off. the ankle area is too fat and the shin curve is off. here is a quick paintover.



also here is the height reference that could be useful:

StephenVyas

Overall, I dig the proportions and style. Though, I gotta say.. It's missing something without the super-speedo

ScudzAlmighty

StephenVyas: Thanks dude, the speedo sure is classic, but I don't think it works with the new suit.

MM: Thanks very much for the paintover, that's a bit closer to how he was earlier in the waywow thread. How's this look?

Ged

his head looks a little small and neck a tad too long? and his waist a tiny bit too wide still and his elbows dont seem to line up with his belly button which suggests that his arms are a little short and stocky too. Its kinda interesting that he isnt perfect ideal proportions though so if thats what you are going for then its fine.

ScudzAlmighty

well I wasn't going for over-the-top Animated series proportions, but I can't say I was trying for less than ideal either.
here's a few more tweaks, head size and elbow-belly button,

StephenVyas

It's cool, I still like the speedos covering his junk haha
Fair enough though, I like the direction your going with him :-)

That aside, suggest looking at his ribcage muscles.
The serratus anterior/obliques? Toning them back would help showcase his latissimus dorsi.
At the moment, they bulge out more than his pecs & cover his lats from our p.o.v .
Usually it's nice to see a definition between the two, especially with such a sculpted physique.

my 2cents

ScudzAlmighty

View on P3d (lower res textures reduced a lot of the suit detail but it holds up mostly well

Superman (View in 3D)


StephenVyas: Thanks man, I deliberatley reduced a lot of the defenition between muscles, since he's wearing a suit and not bodypaint but I'll see what I can tweak in the lowpoly (don't want to re-bakes at this point).

crazyfool

Looks much better with the narrower hips one thing that stands out to me is his man bits, they are a bit too flat and a bit too high for me, not alot of people know that they had to cgi Brandon Roths super bulge down in superman returns because it was too distracting .......poor lil fella haha

He's looking much better dude

Jigsaw

Looks much better. One thing that still stands out a bit for me though is that his neck looks a bit on the thin side. Or maybe a little long, or maybe both. Right now there's something funny-looking about the proportions between his upper torso, neck and head.

ScudzAlmighty

crazyfool: I uh... I was not aware of that... thanks?
Jigsaw: Still tweaking, I'll keep that in mind thanks:)

Bizzaro variant through texture tweaks. Still have to add an expression and the pose is supposed to be awkward, but this might not be the right type of awkward...

MM

crazyfool wrote: »

one thing that stands out to me is his man bits, they are a bit too flat and a bit too high

yup, i think so too.

also, the ankles are still to fat and the shape of the legs look off over all.
as for the rib cage, i can tell that you are intentionally exaggerating them which is ok but you have to be consistent through the character so that it works over all. for example, a bigger rib cage would work well if you make him taller to show more bone growth.

makecg

MM with the pro paintovers . Looking good man, I agree with above adjustments help him look more balanced / strong

ScudzAlmighty

Thanks again MM, here's the leg changes:


and some more Bizzaro:

ScudzAlmighty

updated first post with new Toolbag renders.

almighty_gir

I'd say make the skin a little less glossy, and bring the intensity down a little in the spec on the skin. it's so sharp and strong right now that it's highlighting all of the recesses in the face and making him look haggard and old. also maybe lower the transmission ever so slightly, or tweak the settings a little, there's a really bright glow on his cheeks in the face close ups.

starting to come together really well man!

Vailias

The transmission thing that gir mentioned is the first thing to catch my eye. "His skull is transparent!", I thought.

Overall I like the proportions and anatomy, as they do feel a bit more real, even with the superheroic hypertrophy. This is a Clark Kent who could actually look like a regular joe reporter in street clothes.

ScudzAlmighty

Thanks for the feedack guys,
gir: I'm still trying to (seriously) figure out how to get skin looking good outside of the flat diffuse so it's a lot of trial and error. I've been following the Toolbag2 beta thread and really impressed with your results. Someday I'll have money again for the upgrade.
Vallias: Cheers dude! Supe's anatomy is something that really bugs me in most representations. He's almost always super-ripped, but alien-origins aside the dudes a farmer and his build should reflect that. For all that Smallville messed up, Tom Welling had the right build.

So here's some more work on the skin, adjusted the spec map and the various subdermis/translucency settings in TB. I've also been working on getting some better hair on him. The old helmet works for for full body shots but up close it just looks like poo. As far as I can tell the dithering on the alpha is a scale issue between maya and TB.

sargentcrunch

n/a

almighty_gir

Starting to come together nicely man, maybe pull back the fresnel just a tad so it's not quite so all encompassing. could maybe make him a liiittle bit more glossy, certainly play around with gloss levels on different areas of skin, like the lips, nose, and forhead.

ScudzAlmighty

Thanks Gir, tried doing that, though I was also working on figuring out the skin/translucency masks so there's some other adjustments in there too. Can't quite tell if it's better or not:



I've also re-done the Bizarro sculpt:

(best viewed in IE?!?)
-the old version for comparison:

almighty_gir

definitely an improvement, looking forward to seeing him in TB2 later today

ScudzAlmighty

Here's my first attempt at tb2, with all the skinny-goodness:


Gir: in the tb2 beta thread you were talking about doing a stream and then youtubing it. Did you ever get a youtube version up?

ScudzAlmighty

Thanks for the help in the Hangout Gir! awesome (if weirdly sexual) info

So here's an update; he looks better to me but I dunno if that means anything...

Texelion

I don't know Scudz, this one looked better to me :

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LqGyoK0s098/Up7mpFrKiPI/AAAAAAAADAU/UISobG8vnPM/s1600/Superman_34.jpg

Maybe it's just the lighting.

And the eyes look really weird.



The arms are too short, the wrist should be almost at the same level as the crotch. Or maybe the upper body is good, but the legs aren't... ^^'

Suba

I agree, I like his mouth, his nose and his jaw but those eyes look off.
Why are his arms so short now?

His waist is still a little too wide in my opinion, it does not contrast enough with his chest.

ScudzAlmighty

Thanks guys

Texelion: The lighting (and thus the effect on the mesh) in that one is from tb1. I haven't been able to get quite the same look in tb2 but I agree with you

I had adjusted the shader on the eye's to use the secondary reflection setting in tb2 but I guess it's not working. His arms are bent slightly back at the shoulders and slightly forward at the elbows in this pose which I believe is contributing to the shorter appearance here but I agree they do seem shorter. haven't changed 'em since the earlier posts though.

Texelion

They look short even on the A-pose i think. Or the torso is too long.

For the eyes I was talking about the shape, it's really strange that the outer corner is round and more open than the middle of the eyelids. Also, you have more white on the outer side than the inner one, you should have almost as much white on both sides. Maybe you left the eyes perfectly parallel instead of rotating them ?

Fuiosg

His face looks straight out of the 30's, which is a bit strange next to his modern style outfit.

ScudzAlmighty

Texelion: You do appear to be right on the eye's, I had adjusted the angle of them a few times but was never happy with the angle. I'll have another look. Do you find the arms too short in this view?

Fuisong: What's wrong with the 30's?

Texelion

Yes, I think so. Anatomy and proprtions don't need to be always acurate, but if you compare the length of your arms with anatomy figures, you'll see something like this :



So, either the arms are too short, or the torso is too long ( and maybe the waist is too large, you could give his torso more power with a V-shape by shrinking the waist ).

As the legs look a bit short too, I would say that the torso is too long, maybe try to put the crotch higher ?

maze

scudz, I suggest you take a look at your shaders & textures, I can't read any material correctly as its shown presently, you need to find out what material you want to define and what reflection/glossiness, bump, displace, sss... values you need to get something plausible. I personally like this model by alessandro baldasseroni as a reference, you can clearly read the materials that make it convincing although it is also a stylized character.

Not sure how marmoset works (its being long time since the last time I used it..) but I ll advice you that if possible you block out shading values (by that I mean reflection scale/roughness, sss, etc..) on your shaders, and then you texture using those values as a base.

cheers

Evil raz

Hey ScudzAlmighty, I was wondering how you did the hairs?
I am always having a terrible time with that.

ScudzAlmighty

Texelion: Thanks for the continued feedback:) I'll have another go at the arm length

maze: Cheers man. Yeah my material defenition is pretty weak atm. It's supposed to be the shiny pleather material of his new suit.

Evil raz: The phenominal miss Tits put this up, the last half of which covers hair and I found it tremendously helpfull [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGN7Wby2thk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUKlNB0dpR1BK0y-JRh6Ju7Q"]Character Photoshop Texturing Overview, tutorial, Ellie fan art The last of us - YouTube[/ame]