Male Character Base

Bold Elf

Hi everyone I am currently working on a Male Base mesh for future kit bashing on my models etc and I would like any advice to help me get it to a high standard so that it could go into my portfolio

bellow is what I have after about 8 hours I am still only on subdiv 3 as I plan on retopologising it before going up to a new subdiv. At this stage I am mainly trying to get everything in the right place and to the correct scale if you guys and gals notice anything out of place and/or have any advice on how best to proceed then I am all ears .



Additionally bellow is an older attempt but I got mixed responses what do you all think? I might keep it and edit it later J


[FONT=&quot]
Thanks in advance

Dan[/FONT]

JGreentheRookie

You should work more on the feet in my opinion. The face may need some more work too. Is it supposed to be a human or a humanoid creature.

Bold Elf

In most cases not much work is needed on feet as they are barely seen and if they are they are so far away its not time efficent to put alot of detail into them. In regards to the face do you mean on the top pic or the bottom? as I havent placed any landmarks on the top one yet I was undecided weather to do them or leav it so I could do each face individualy but I will add the landamrks before I retopologise his face

Bold Elf

Here is a few updates on my Base mesh the 1st image is the final sculpt before the retopologise. I just wanted enough detail so that had the landmarks when retopologising. the second image is the retopology so far the head is basicaly complete it might take a few tweaks to the verts but so far so good

Constructive crit and advice would be greatly appreaciated

Cheers

Dan

mr_ace

you're currently way too focused on sculpting all the different muscles, that you're ignoring or at least not paying enough attention to the overal shape and forms, as well as the proportions. if i were you i would stop trying to sculpt such a muscular body, and go for something a bit more average, which will force you to stop focusing on the muscles. This will also be a more useful base mesh, as not all your characters are going to be body builders, so you want something in the middle that you can adapt to lots of uses. This was the problem with your last model too, far too much focus on trying to sculpt muscle groups, whilst ignoring the proportion and anatomy issues with the model.

A few more things, don't have his hands rotated round that way. you want them in a normal relaxed posture, so they can be moved into a different position with minimal stretching, yours are much too extreme, This is why just about every t-pose model you see on polycount etc has their hands roughly pointing down in a relaxed pose.

His pose is bit odd, he currently looks like he's squatting, his knees are slightly bent, and he's sticking his ass out really far (his ass is alo pretty huge btw). His waist is a bit too thin, and his hands look a bit too small.

Also, turn on perspective mode in zbrush both for sculpting and for renders (press p in zbrush)

SA_22

mr_ace wrote: »

you're currently way too focused on sculpting all the different muscles, that you're ignoring or at least not paying enough attention to the overal shape and forms, as well as the proportions.

^^^ this

alphajayel

mr_ace ACES it!

he just said what I think I'd want to say. XD

Bold Elf

mr_ace wrote: »

you're currently way too focused on sculpting all the different muscles, that you're ignoring or at least not paying enough attention to the overal shape and forms, as well as the proportions. if i were you i would stop trying to sculpt such a muscular body, and go for something a bit more average, which will force you to stop focusing on the muscles. This will also be a more useful base mesh, as not all your characters are going to be body builders, so you want something in the middle that you can adapt to lots of uses. This was the problem with your last model too, far too much focus on trying to sculpt muscle groups, whilst ignoring the proportion and anatomy issues with the model.

A few more things, don't have his hands rotated round that way. you want them in a normal relaxed posture, so they can be moved into a different position with minimal stretching, yours are much too extreme, This is why just about every t-pose model you see on polycount etc has their hands roughly pointing down in a relaxed pose.

His pose is bit odd, he currently looks like he's squatting, his knees are slightly bent, and he's sticking his ass out really far (his ass is alo pretty huge btw). His waist is a bit too thin, and his hands look a bit too small.

Also, turn on perspective mode in zbrush both for sculpting and for renders (press p in zbrush)

Thanks for the advice I will take that into account what parts exaclty are out of proportion? and do you happen to know anything about topology as there is a small issue around the eye but I'm having an issue pin pointing it so having abit of truble fixing it as well

Cheers

Bold Elf

Here is an update to my project my retopologised Basemesh there are a few small tweaks I have to do but its basicaly done what do you guys think?

Psyk0

You have major proportions issues, you need to have a proper starting base and work your way up to details, not the other way around.

You should setup a character sheet in maya and block in the anatomy before going into zbrush (use the reference image below), then you can start sculpting and finally retopo. The initial poly model doesn't need a ton of geometry, but needs evenly spaced polygons.

polaroid29

Bold Elf wrote: »

Thanks for the advice I will take that into account what parts exaclty are out of proportion? and do you happen to know anything about topology as there is a small issue around the eye but I'm having an issue pin pointing it so having abit of truble fixing it as well

Cheers

Most, if not all of it is out of proportion. Mr. Ace nailed it, but I'll try to elaborate a little more. There are a lot of issues technically, but the fundamental issues are a way bigger problem.

The best way in my opinion to check whether something is accurate (proportions, shapes, muscles, etc) is to just look at its real world equivalent. Look at your character next to a photo of a real bodybuilder, or even just a normal guy, and a ton of things will jump out at you immediately. For one, he has a Kim K ass, which is quite odd for a male basemesh. His knees are too low, his hands are much too small which would make his wrist too small also, there is no sign of a ribcage, his pelvis is a really really weird shape, etc etc. On the technical side of things, you are moving on to high subdivisions wayy too quickly, so a lot of your forms are very blobby and melt-y. My advice would be start off really low, throw on the Flat shader filled with all black, and focus on getting a really nice attractive silhouette with only the move brush, THEN actually start sculpting.

Bold Elf wrote: »

In most cases not much work is needed on feet as they are barely seen and if they are they are so far away its not time efficent to put alot of detail into them

This is a terrible attitude to have. Please, we don't need anymore Rob Liefelds, hiding feet because he can't draw them.

Bold Elf

Thanks for the feedback so far guys much appreciated here is an update of my restart what do you guys think?



Also polaroid29 I know I jumped up sculpting levels to fast I just did it to get enough pixles to put a basic face structure down as it was built from a Z sphere and I couldnt get the landmarks for the eyes/mouth done in that stage without it warping the head strangely :S but the main point of that sculpt was to give me something to build from/retopologise in maya but yeh in a sculpting regards I totaly agree its to fast thanks for the help so far though I realy appreciate it from all of you as its realy helping me imporve

Cheers

Dan

Bold Elf

Here is an update to my base WIP I have been working from the orthos sent to me by Psyk0 and I have been using the Rouge character tutorial that Almighty Gir made as well as following the wiki

Bold Elf

I think the base mesh is finished now but not 100% sure. What do you guys think? if it is finished I will begin sculpting at the weekend

luulin

im not sure if your aim is to make something heavily stylised, but I think your eye sockets are very large and oddly shapped, a bit flat too... you should try putting a sphere in them for the eyeball then modelling around that. Also get some reference of peoples faces/eyes to hep you with shaping them

Your legs are quite close together, this could cause you issues if you decide to rig your model later.

I dont know if your actually trying to make a body builder, or just a reusable base mesh. Like those guys said before its quite extreme. You should try collecting some orthographic photos for modelling such as 3dsk, or taking some yourself of people you know (make sure its from a distance and then zoomed in to eliminate perspective warp). Make sure your using collected references from the internet all the way through your projects process and its sure to turn out good and right!

sorry for the watermark, but you can find torrents of their stuff or look for other sources of photos. In these images though you can see compaired to yours the shapes are curved and subtle and not as extreme, your torso is very cartoonised. This guy is a little bulky but alot more general than your bodybuilder type body.. if you are still going for heavy musculature make sure you are really using reference for that and try and find yourself some nice orthos. you will probably also want to pick one side of this body that looks the nicest to model from, then mirror your models body. because of the level of muscle this guy has he actually does have a rather round butt.



source: http://www.3d.sk/photos/search/query//thumb/small/standard/1/premium/1/category-113/Man/category-139/Modeling%20references/category-263/Athletic/page/4

Bold Elf

He’s extreme in what way? Because to me he looks normal I'm not too sure about his legs they look abit thin to me but his torso etc don’t look bodybuilder size?

My plan is to have this as a reusable base mesh that I can use for general male characters put it into ZBrush and the alter it e.g. make him bigger with more muscle definition for a body builder, skinnier and smaller for a more ectomorphic character, fatter and more bulbous for an endomorphic character etc so a good base with the correct proportions. and I want him to look realistic again so it’s a good base so I can alter it to a specific style if needed etc.

I will have another look at the eye sockets when I’m at home.

As for the Legs I will space them out I just wanted to make sure they fit the orthos that were sent to me by Psk0 as seen above and they seem to .

I will take a screen of the character in front of the orths as well.

Additionally what do you guys think of the poly spacing? I'm trying to make them all even with only a few areas where they aren’t to produce natural definition e.g. the chest

Bold Elf

Here is a new update to my character he’s ready for sculpting Ta to Almighty Gir for his advice on creating the group loops and for his rouge course

Bold Elf

Another Update to my Sculpt this is layer 2 completed what do you guys think? Does everything look in proportion to you etc?

Bold Elf

Onto Subdiv 3 now here is an update shot so far. I think I need to pull the back in abit and round out the shoulders alittle other than that I think its coming along realy well

luulin

Your torso sides.......back muscles?? im not sure what that area is called.... is very large its like he is doing "the cobra"? (thing bruce lee used to do??? i think it was him) he reminds me of an exagerated hero style body type..... for a generic base model.......people try to aim for somewhere inbetween their extreames in between no muscle to body builder....., little muscle .... like an averge guy...

your model will only have one place to go from here to be anything else.....and that isonly space to reduce muscle.... your level of muscle is very much on the high end its very defined, i think you need to keep it softened down. more subtle.

im only a student, and i cant really give you much more advice than iv already said.

maybe you should just make a muscular type character out of this. for your next character do try making anothing base, afterall the more you work the better you will get, if you plan your character out then you can just make a base more suited to what you are aiming for? for your next character try a completely different body type and then maybe you will start to see the different levels of muscularture and shapes?

luulin

i think your low typology looks fairly decent tho and can be manipulated easily to be different bodys, so in a way you have built yourself a nice base mesh you can reuse ^_^.

oh also take a look at your jaw it seems to be a straight diagonal from your chin to the ear... jaws are not like this.

Bold Elf

Luulin ta for the feedback I think I might have pushed it in a bit since that screenshot last week I did 16 hours on him and 12 of that was in one day O.0 so he has changed a bit I will get a new wip up tonight and it is meant to be a hero character he’s going to be a warrior so will need to be muscley not brute size but mesomorph

gilesruscoe

*sigh* wrote a massive write up for you then lost it all due to laptop spazzing on me.

Here is a brief over view of what i was going to say:

things to look at :
Shoulder silhouette - looks too disjointed, study how the muscles join to the bones.

chest area too blobby and pecs not connecting properly to the arm

Arms way too thin for his build, so are the legs

torso silhouette is odd, consider how the muscles sit on top of the rib cage.

Overall blobbyness and proportions.

At this stage, forget about the topology of the model, there are tons of tools you can use to build the correct topology afterwards. At the moment its just getting in the way you focusing on the sculpture.

Here is a quick paint over showing what i mean


Keep it up!

Bold Elf

[FONT=&quot]Here is an update for my character it has come along a lot since my last pic and this is the final layer now moving onto the clothing and armour.



This is a character that is going to end up low poly for use in a game engine

gilesruscoe[/FONT]

Ta for the feed back I am moving him about now to give him a more relaxed pose and he looks more proportionate due to it would appreciate your feed back on it should have a pic up shortly I can always make additional proportion changes with the move brush

Bold Elf

Quick pose

Bold Elf

Here is a WIP of his armour so far